As I understand it the Showman is THE amp for THAT sound, but I don’t have several thousand dollars to spend on acquiring one.

My max budget is around 750 , maybe 8…

Truth be told I use a Fender Rumble 100 for guitar and it serves me just fine….but am wondering if I am missing out on some secret vintage style amp for under 1k

Warmed up tubes was part of DDs sound right ? Is that what the Blossom point pedal emulates?

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Last edited: Jan 31, 2024 16:05:11

I'm afraid I am, Tqi..
For years I am raving about a certain bass amp. Actually, I still am.
It's not a showman, bandmaster, bassman or whatsoever. But man, it can do just everything. Due to the built in 'blackface looking' knob equalizer section. It has plenty of power. No worries about being drowned in the mix by your band members.
The only downside. Stock they come in a combo like the quad reverbs were. But with 1 15" speaker and closed back. For your benefit (of your back) you should put the chassis in a separate head.
As nobody, but really nobody faves them, sometimes you can get some super cheap (as his brother the 'super twin').
Ed Jahns designed it. Just as the fender ps 300, the ps 400, super twin,... Just genius.
But hey, that's just my opinion.

And yes. What are you looking for??
Cheers, Andy. More Aroused than you would guess...

Cheers,
Wellens

https://m.facebook.com/TheArousals
For the daring... and lusty!

Last edited: Nov 12, 2023 04:23:15

A Blossom Point can get you awfully close to a brown Fender amp sound with lots of different amps, both tube and solid state. Personally, if I wanted to find the really low buck but reliable and good sounding solution I’d try a used 80s Peavey steel amp, either the Nashville 400 or Vegas 400 with the 15” aluminum domed speaker (and loads of headroom) and use the Blossom Point. That amp would only set you back about $400 and it would be loud as hell.
I used the Blossom Point into a Roland JC120 in a pretty big venue and that combination also sounded great.

Any amp with nice cleans + Blossom Point

Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine

https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki

Lost Diver

https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin

Last edited: Nov 11, 2023 02:32:17

weird_oh84 wrote:

As I understand it the Showman is THE amp for THAT sound, but I don’t have several thousand dollars to spend on acquiring one.

My max budget is around 750 , maybe 8…

Truth be told I use a Fender Rumble 100 for guitar and it serves me just fine….but am wondering if I am missing out on some secret vintage style amp for under 1k

Warmed up tubes was part of DDs sound right ? Is that what the Blossom point pedal emulates?

A ‘62 Showman, and a 6G15 reverb sounds great; there’s no question about that. This was a common equipment setup for early Surf guitarists, at least those who could afford such gear.

However, most of us are not playing large venues these days. I recently turned down a killer deal on a ‘62 Bandmaster, which is a 50 watt amp, with a similar preamp, and tremolo circuit to a Showman. I turned it down, because I don’t really need an amp that powerful.

Volume, in and of itself, has a significant effect upon how we hear sound. A Showman at with the volume at 2 does not sound like a Showman with the volume of 5, or with the volume at 8. Our hearing, essentially, compresses loud sounds.

One of the best sounds I ever got out of an amp was a 60 watt Hot Rod DeVille with 2x12” speakers, turned up loud, but just short of breakup; the “blossom point” if you will. The sound was tremendous, and tremendously loud. What made that sound so good? Some of it may have been a pair of 6L6 GCs in full song, some was the output transformer, some might have been the preamp running hard, and some was a couple of 12” speakers getting a workout but I’d venture that more than a little of it was the volume itself. Strat + cable + Hot Rod DeVille = The Wind Cries Mary.

These days, I use small amps, pretty much exclusively. My biggest guitar amp is a 40 watt Winfield Elizabeth, with a pair of 6L6 GCs, but still a one-hand carry. Most of the time I use a 5 watt Winfield Typhoon or a 12 watt Winfield Tremor. Any of these amps is great sounding at home, and mic’d through the PA, they sound huge. At an outdoor gig, a few years back, I wandered to the front of the stage during one song, where I could hear the PA mains, and my tiny little amp sounded as big as any Showman. The ingredients were a small tube amp, breaking a sweat, a microphone and a clean PA raising it to Showman volume levels, while the stage volume was living-room levels.

There are a lot of great sounding amps out there. The Vaporizer is very cool, and likewise the Fender Excelsior. Either is a good amp and can do the job for Surf music. A Princeton, a Deluxe Reverb, a Vox AC 15, one of the Winfields I mentioned owning, or any number of other choices will work. A friend owns a Peavey Delta Blues which sounds great for Surf or Instrumental Rock.

The Crate Powerblock has been mentioned and I agree, these are great sounding amps. I take one to every gig, just in case I blow a tube. I’ve tested it, and it sounds great. Like Ivan, I bought it at clearance price, probably less than the price of a cheap pedal.

The Blossom Point pedal is a wonderful tool. I own three of them; one for each pedalboard, and I use it for everything. My opinion, not having seen the schematic, is that it is a Limiter (there’s a trim pot labeled “Limiter” on the circuit board), with an Op Amp. The Op Amp likely uses a negative feedback circuit with a variable RC bridge to act as a Presence control. There is an Input pot to allow you to attenuate the signal coming in, if you need that, and the Output pot controls a clean boost of up to 6 dB.

The Blossom Point pedal, from what I can tell, is not an overdrive, but the Limiter does serve to smooth the signal out a bit. Putting it in front of a Blackface Fender circuit changes the character of the sound to something similar to what we’d expect from a ‘62 Showman. It seems to overcome the midrange scoop and that makes the curve flatter, which simulates the equal loudness contour of higher volumes.

So then we come to dirty word; budget. It’s really easy to tell someone what to buy, but we have to keep in mind that none of us have unlimited budgets. If I were truly wealthy, I might well buy any number of amps, but I have only so much space in my home, and only so many dollars to work with. I’m fortunate to have collected a number of amps over the years, but I’ve learned that every purchase has to count. No purchase does it all, but you can usually find a product that suits your needs.

I’d advise trying to find your own sound. My sound, whether for Surf, or more general use, is clean, with a degree of Blues character. Reverb varies, from drippy Surf sounds, to understated reverb that sweetens the sound, subtly. I can dial it in with a stock Deluxe Reverb, but my preferred rig is a Winfield Tremor, or Winfield Typhoon, and a Source Audio True Spring for reverb. You will never find “The Sound”, but you can find “Your Sound”.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

synchro wrote:

...I recently turned down a killer deal on a ‘62 Bandmaster, which is a 50 watt amp, with a similar preamp, and tremolo circuit to a Showman. I turned it down, because I don’t really need an amp that powerful.

Unless the one you were going to buy was modded in some way to make it 50 watts, the blonde Band-Master is actually only 40 watts - still plenty loud.

Fender Band-Master

Blonde Fender Band-Master

To the OP, in my ever-ongoing, obsessive perusal of vintage gear, I find that Showmans are among the lowest priced and available vintage Fender amps available on the used market - likely due to their high wattage (i.e., too powerful for most local venues or at home today). I see some black panel versions out there for as low as $999 (US) and some of the reasonably high end ones go for about $2100.

There a lot of Band-Masters out there in the wild - currently on Reverb, there some silver panel B-Ms starting at $999 and up, black panel B-Ms starting at $1029 and up. Unfortunately, blonde ones on Reverb are now on the higher end around $3k - but deals can be had if you look around.

I currently have two Band-Master amps. I bought my '62 Band-Master head on Reverb and it was housed in an export black tolex/silver cloth Showman head shell for a relatively affordable price. Instead of getting a custom-made blonde head for the traditional look, I decided to have it match my also non-traditional '63 Showman head (also purchased via Reverb).

The previous owner of the '63 Showman head had put the chassis in a brown tolex head/oxblood grill cloth with brown/tan thread). I loved the look so much that I duplicated it in a 2x10 combo cab format built for me by Armadillo Ampworks. I swapped out the original knobs (safely stored away) and put some brown knobs on it to match the look of my Showman.

My '63 Band-Master head was an unplanned buy. I stumbled upon it on Guitar Center's Used Gear section for a can't resist/must-buy/take a gamble price. I believe at some point in its history, a not-so-good blonde re-tolexing job was done on it, along with an incorrect grill cloth. I had removed the incorrect period grill cloth and installed the period correct wheat cloth. Looks much better but the not-so-good recovered blonde tolex job still bothered me.

I decided on reaching out to Armadillo Ampworks again and commissioned a head & 2x12 speaker cab built to match my '63 Showman and '62 Band-Master's brown tolex/oxblood grill cloth with brown/tan thread. I have a pair 12" Jensen NK-12 Neodymium speakers handy so I put them in - sounds great!

The original '63 Band-Master head shell is safely stored away - If I ever move it on, I'll re-house it in the original shell. It still has the tube chart with the stamped date code "MK". The chassis' identifiable numbers also are from '63 as well.

The doofus formerly known as Snorre
Surfysonic on YouTube
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K39: 2013 - 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv9JADQ4ukw

Last edited: Nov 12, 2023 11:36:26

Surfysonic wrote:

synchro wrote:

...I recently turned down a killer deal on a ‘62 Bandmaster, which is a 50 watt amp, with a similar preamp, and tremolo circuit to a Showman. I turned it down, because I don’t really need an amp that powerful.

Unless the one you were going to buy was modded in some way to make it 50 watts, the blonde Band-Master is actually only 40 watts - still plenty loud.

Fender Band-Master

Blonde Fender Band-Master

To the OP, in my ever-ongoing, obsessive perusal of vintage gear, I find that Showmans are among the lowest priced and available vintage Fender amps available on the used market - likely due to their high wattage (i.e., too powerful for most local venues or at home today). I see some black panel versions out there for as low as $999 (US) and some of the reasonably high end ones go for about $2100.

There a lot of Band-Masters out there in the wild - currently on Reverb, there some silver panel B-Ms starting at $999 and up, black panel B-Ms starting at $1029 and up. Unfortunately, blonde ones on Reverb are now on the higher end around $3k - but deals can be had if you look around.

I currently have two Band-Master amps. I bought my '62 Band-Master head on Reverb and it was housed in an export black tolex/silver cloth Showman head shell for a relatively affordable price. Instead of getting a custom-made blonde head for the traditional look, I decided to have it match my also non-traditional '63 Showman head (also purchased via Reverb).

The previous owner of the '63 Showman head had put the chassis in a brown tolex head/oxblood grill cloth with brown/tan thread). I loved the look so much that I duplicated it in a 2x10 combo cab format built for me by Armadillo Ampworks. I swapped out the original knobs (safely stored away) and put some brown knobs on it to match the look of my Showman.

My '63 Band-Master head was an unplanned buy. I stumbled upon it on Guitar Center's Used Gear section for a can't resist/must-buy/take a gamble price. I believe at some point in its history, a not-so-good blonde re-tolexing job was done on it, along with an incorrect grill cloth. I had removed the incorrect period grill cloth and installed the period correct wheat cloth. Looks much better but the not-so-good recovered blonde tolex job still bothered me.

I decided on reaching out to Armadillo Ampworks again and commissioned a head & 2x12 speaker cab built to match my '63 Showman and '62 Band-Master's brown tolex/oxblood grill cloth with brown/tan thread. I have a pair 12" Jensen NK-12 Neodymium speakers handy so I put them in - sounds great!

The original '63 Band-Master head shell is safely stored away - If I ever move it on, I'll re-house it in the original shell. It still has the tube chart with the stamped date code "MK". The chassis' identifiable numbers also are from '63 as well.

The Bandmaster I had the opportunity to buy was a ‘62, and it was absolutely mint. It looked like it had been kept in a time warp for 60 years. I wanted it, craved it, but it would have been unused, once the “new” had worn off. I hated to pass it up, but it would have been a waste of my money. Hopefully, someone who would appreciate it ended up buying it and is putting it to use.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Surfysonic wrote:

synchro wrote:

The Bandmaster I had the opportunity to buy was a ‘62, and it was absolutely mint. It looked like it had been kept in a time warp for 60 years. I wanted it, craved it, but it would have been unused, once the “new” had worn off. I hated to pass it up, but it would have been a waste of my money. Hopefully, someone who would appreciate it ended up buying it and is putting it to use.

Nice! My '64 Fender Reverb Unit is like that '62 Band-Master - totally pristine. The original owner sold (or traded) it in to Carter Vintage Guitars in Nashville along with his equally pristine (I believe) '62 Fender Concert.

I would have bought the Concert, too, but Carter Vintage Guitars had too many issues with shipping vintage amps so they no longer want to risk shipping them. Probably a good thing I don't live within a reasonable distance to Nashville for my wallet...

There are still a handful of truly pristine amps out there. That ‘62 Bandmaster was as perfect as any amp I’ve ever seen. I would have loved to know the story of how it stayed so clean for so long.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

I don't know if it has been mentioned in this thread yet, but I really like my Quilter Tone Block 202. I prefer it in the vintage mode, paired with a Brownfacer (Blossom Point) pedal. Lots of clean headroom, and sounds amazing!

MooreLoud.com - A tribute to Dick Dale. New Singles "Finish Line" and "Paradiso" on Bandcamp and website.

Last edited: Nov 13, 2023 20:31:29