Fady wrote:

As shared in other convos's about reverb pedals here, I too am a big fan of the Source Audio True Spring. I've not tried near as many reverb pedals as others, just first hand ownership and use of the Boss FRV-1 and Catalinbread Topanga.

The Boss was my first reverb effect, then I cut to the chase with a Gomez G-Spring. I have had the luxury of also having a good pedal for backup on gigs and agree with your sentiment and others - the Topanga is real nice. It just doesn't compare with the True Spring's reverb engines; that's not even factoring in the really great harmonic, optical and bias tremolo options they've built into the True Spring.

Anyhow, yeah, I agree with the technology advancements. The Source Audio guys are top of the heap with the best of the best (eg: Strymon too).

I have always appreciated and enjoyed these geek out videos Bob does on DSP's and particularly the Reverb ones, all of which illustrate your point about advancements.

Thanks for posting those videos. That was interesting, to say the least. The FRV-1 was good in its day, but the state of the art has long-since left it behind. I A:B’d one with a reissue tank, and it was closer than I could have imagined.

The Topanga, IMO, was the next step, and it was an excellent step forward. I have a couple of Topangas mounted on pedalboards, and I’d be fine with using one on a gig, to this day. However, the True Spring is another step forward, and I think that it’s a much better and more versatile pedal, overall, not to mention that it adds tremolo to the mix.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Perhaps I'm just dense. Every time I revisit the manual for my Source Audio True Spring to get clarification on the reverb engines - particularly the 2 noted as 'Ventris Outboard Spring' vs. 'Ventris True Spring' and how they compare to "Tank", I get a bit sideways. Which one was created specifically for the True Spring stand alone 'one series' pedal?

Forever, I keep thinking it's the one with "True Spring" in name. It is the True Spring pedal, right? Or maybe the 'Outboard' one? Wrong.

TANK is the one they've come up with that is unique to the stand alone pedal - the Ventris nor Collider have the power to run it. If I understand correctly, that's due to more memory and a fully dedicated DSP in the True Spring to run it where as the DSP's in the others are also performing other functions.

I think I've finally figured out how to remember it - besides the obvious - I am not using the Ventris pedal, so skip those with "Ventris" in the name... but the 'engine selection' toggle switch is labeled: Short | Long | Tank. It's right there, written on the face of the pedal. TANK.

Like I said, maybe I'm just dense. Anyhow, in trying to validate that (again, the 40+ page manual is great, but I'm pretty sure that clarification isn't there) I ran across this post over on TheGearPage. I've quoted the text below for ease of reference too.

I have read or heard casual comments about their references - was it a Surfy Bear? A 6G15? The answer: Yes. Read on...

On Sep 10, 2019, rsmith601 wrote (note: he is Source Audio's Chairman & Co-Founder)

For what it is worth:

in about 2010 we started working on the spring reverb in the Dimension Reverb. There were limited DSP instructions given that we were also doing like 7 other reverb effects, so Bob focused on what the sound of a spring reverb was like and created it with EQ and filters. I would go out on a limb and say that this is how most pedal reverbs are created.

In about 2016 Bob started work on the "True Spring" that was to be on the new Ventris Reverb. His 1960s Vibrolux was the key inspiration for the sound. Once we committed to dual reverbs in the Ventris, Bob was able to dedicate 100% of the DSP instructions to the spring. There are not many examples of a reverb pedal where 100% of a high performance DSP is committed to just the spring. (I cant think is any, in fact) The key innovation with the True Spring was the modeling of the physical characteristics of the springs themselves (yes there are more than one so cross talk is included) rather than what has been done historically with just EQ and filtering. It was a high risk project and very expensive, but it worked. In our view, we came closer to "amp spring" reverb than anyone ever had before in a pedal.

When Ventris came out there were folks who asked about more drip to capture "outboard" spring tanks. There is drip in the amp settings, but it is not as extreme as in the outboard. We borrowed a Surfy Bear from @Tri Pedal Reviews and studied it for a while. It certainly had a sound that was different than the True Spring and the Vibrolux, so we set about studying what made it different. We also studied what I will call pedals with "fake drip" (there were 2 on the market at the time) and "no drip" spring. We were under pressure from many folks here to do better. This led to a few months after Ventris was released, when we put out the Ventris Outboard Spring Reverb Engines. Any owner of Ventris can get access to them. Again, these were based on the Surfy Bear.

About 2 years ago we thought we should put all of our best spring technology into one dedicated spring reverb pedal for those who did not want to pay $400. This became the True Spring Pedal. In addition to all the spring sounds from Ventris, we decided to really nail the Fender 6G15 outboard spring tank rather than the Surfy alone. It sounds quite different than the Surfy, so it required that we go back to the drawing board. Many thanks to @shoepedals for his great reverb ear and assistance in pushing us to get as close as we possibly could. He also designed a number of other really great sounds that are on that pedal and too. Many owners have yet to discover them!

The bottom line? The outboard spring tank effects in the True Spring Reverb pedal represent the culmination of many years of research and product creation in this area. And, very specifically, we really went after the sound, controls, and experience of the 6G15.

Perhaps more than most of you want to know......but that is the history behind these pedals and how we eventually went after creating this sound.

Suffice it to say, I've been going down the rabbit hole again with my True Spring with renewed clarity on the engines.

At some point, I'd shared a pointer to a preset I'd made that was about as close as I thought I could get to my G-Spring. Granted it was pretty darn good, especially so for a digital pedal, I was never totally satisfied. The attack was pretty good and the body of the reverb too, but the tail & trailing nature wasn't doing it entirely for me. Besides discovering my editor (I?) had inadvertently saved with a distinctly noticeable amount of modulation on the tail (booo!) it turns out I was also using one of the Ventris based engines (granted I changed the spring from engine default and a few other key tweaks from the engine default).

I haven't published a new pre-set yet but was OCD enough to pull the original one. I'll bump this if/when I publish an updated patch. Back to the reverb lab!

Fady

El Mirage @ ReverbNation

Last edited: Sep 26, 2023 12:59:01

Fady wrote:

Perhaps I'm just dense. Every time I revisit the manual for my Source Audio True Spring to get clarification on the reverb engines - particularly the 2 noted as 'Ventris Outboard Spring' vs. 'Ventris True Spring' and how they compare to "Tank", I get a bit sideways. Which one was created specifically for the True Spring stand alone 'one series' pedal?

Forever, I keep thinking it's the one with "True Spring" in name. It is the True Spring pedal, right? Or maybe the 'Outboard' one? Wrong.

TANK is the one they've come up with that is unique to the stand alone pedal - the Ventris nor Collider have the power to run it. If I understand correctly, that's due to more memory and a fully dedicated DSP in the True Spring to run it where as the DSP's in the others are also performing other functions.

I think I've finally figured out how to remember it - besides the obvious - I am not using the Ventris pedal, so skip those with "Ventris" in the name... but the 'engine selection' toggle switch is labeled: Short | Long | Tank. It's right there, written on the face of the pedal. TANK.

Like I said, maybe I'm just dense. Anyhow, in trying to validate that (again, the 40+ page manual is great, but I'm pretty sure that clarification isn't there) I ran across this post over on TheGearPage. I've quoted the text below for ease of reference too.

I have read or heard casual comments about their references - was it a Surfy Bear? A 6G15? The answer: Yes. Read on...

On Sep 10, 2019, rsmith601 wrote (note: he is Source Audio's Chairman & Co-Founder)

For what it is worth:

in about 2010 we started working on the spring reverb in the Dimension Reverb. There were limited DSP instructions given that we were also doing like 7 other reverb effects, so Bob focused on what the sound of a spring reverb was like and created it with EQ and filters. I would go out on a limb and say that this is how most pedal reverbs are created.

In about 2016 Bob started work on the "True Spring" that was to be on the new Ventris Reverb. His 1960s Vibrolux was the key inspiration for the sound. Once we committed to dual reverbs in the Ventris, Bob was able to dedicate 100% of the DSP instructions to the spring. There are not many examples of a reverb pedal where 100% of a high performance DSP is committed to just the spring. (I cant think is any, in fact) The key innovation with the True Spring was the modeling of the physical characteristics of the springs themselves (yes there are more than one so cross talk is included) rather than what has been done historically with just EQ and filtering. It was a high risk project and very expensive, but it worked. In our view, we came closer to "amp spring" reverb than anyone ever had before in a pedal.

When Ventris came out there were folks who asked about more drip to capture "outboard" spring tanks. There is drip in the amp settings, but it is not as extreme as in the outboard. We borrowed a Surfy Bear from @Tri Pedal Reviews and studied it for a while. It certainly had a sound that was different than the True Spring and the Vibrolux, so we set about studying what made it different. We also studied what I will call pedals with "fake drip" (there were 2 on the market at the time) and "no drip" spring. We were under pressure from many folks here to do better. This led to a few months after Ventris was released, when we put out the Ventris Outboard Spring Reverb Engines. Any owner of Ventris can get access to them. Again, these were based on the Surfy Bear.

About 2 years ago we thought we should put all of our best spring technology into one dedicated spring reverb pedal for those who did not want to pay $400. This became the True Spring Pedal. In addition to all the spring sounds from Ventris, we decided to really nail the Fender 6G15 outboard spring tank rather than the Surfy alone. It sounds quite different than the Surfy, so it required that we go back to the drawing board. Many thanks to @shoepedals for his great reverb ear and assistance in pushing us to get as close as we possibly could. He also designed a number of other really great sounds that are on that pedal and too. Many owners have yet to discover them!

The bottom line? The outboard spring tank effects in the True Spring Reverb pedal represent the culmination of many years of research and product creation in this area. And, very specifically, we really went after the sound, controls, and experience of the 6G15.

Perhaps more than most of you want to know......but that is the history behind these pedals and how we eventually went after creating this sound.

Suffice it to say, I've been going down the rabbit hole again with my True Spring with renewed clarity on the engines.

At some point, I'd shared a pointer to a preset I'd made that was about as close as I thought I could get to my G-Spring. Granted it was pretty darn good, especially so for a digital pedal, I was never totally satisfied. The attack was pretty good and the body of the reverb too, but the tail & trailing nature wasn't doing it entirely for me. Besides discovering my editor (I?) had inadvertently saved with a distinctly noticeable amount of modulation on the tail (booo!) it turns out I was also using one of the Ventris based engines (granted I changed the spring from engine default and a few other key tweaks from the engine default).

I haven't published a new pre-set yet but was OCD enough to pull the original one. I'll bump this if/when I publish an updated patch. Back to the reverb lab!

That’s a lot of useful information. I know next to nothing about DSP programming, but I know enough to know that it can be a daunting proposition, and I have heard that spring reverb is one of the harder things to model.

The Source Audio True Spring sounds pretty good to my ear. I use it, pretty much, exclusively, at this point. I’m not about to argue that it can shoot down a vintage 6G15, but for a compact pedal, I find it impressive, and the three reverbs (Short, Long & Tank) give some variety to the situation.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Fady wrote:

One more useful update regarding the True Spring Reverb pedal by Source Audio. I reached out to Source Audio support inquiring about the Bass 'virtual' knob range (only accessible via the Neuro app/editor), and how it interacts with or perhaps overlaps with the low pass filter settings. This was the response:

"The bass control is a high pass filter that is in the reverb loop. So that means that as you turn the bass knob up (clockwise) the frequency of the high pass goes lower, cutting less bass in the signal.

The filter goes from 230 Hz to 40 Hz around the knob from left to right. So as you get to full clockwise, the highpass filter is at 40Hz so it's cutting a lot less. All the way down the filter is at 230Hz so more bass is cut.

The input low pass filter is at the input (hence the name) before the signal goes into the reverb. So this cuts the bass prior to it getting into the reverb loop. so they can kind of "overlap" I guess in the sense that if you cut a lot before the reverb, there will be less bass to recirculate in the reverb loop."

Note, the pull down menu options for the input low pass filter (also, only available in the Neuro app) are 100Hz, 125Hz, 150Hz, 200Hz, 250Hz, 300Hz and while on the input, it only affects the wet/reverb signal. That part is documented in the manual - just the bass 'knob' range isn't.

Thanks again for the information. In a sense, the bass control is like a strangle switch for the wet signal. I’ve experimented with drip and come to the conclusion that the best way to create drip is to accentuated the highs. The Blossom Point has a Presence control and if the Presence is rolled back, there is a decrease in drip. Likewise, as founder, president, prime minister and big Kahuna of the Strangle Switch Fan Club I am well aware of how this can serve to enhance drip. I find it easy to believe that by changing the EQ to reduce the proportion of low frequencies would probably serve the same purpose.

Beyond that, and I know that I risk triggering some heart attacks, but there is more to Surf guitar than reverb drip. As a kid, listening to First Wave Surf as it developed, I knew that there were cool guitar sounds, but had never heard the term drip. I enjoy hearing some drip, but I considering icing on the cake, if not the sprinkles on the icing.

When I’m playing Surf, I seek a good, bright sound, first and foremost. Reverb is prominent, in most cases, but even the vaunted reverb is not an absolute necessity. (I’ve heard some great Surf sounds from a clean amp with Tremolo.) I find that drip is most enjoyable when it happens spontaneously, and is somewhat random. Pedals with a drip algorithm are known to exist, and while I admire the effort, it can get a bit predictable.

The earlier post regarding the True Spring models, I would agree that the True Spring comes closer to a 6G15 than the Ventris reverb models. I’ve tested the Ventris models which are included in the True Spring, but I find that the True Spring’s native External Tank model is the one I choose most often.

I would nominate developers of Spring Reverb models for DSP-based pedals as one of the more thankless jobs on earth. No matter what they develop there will be criticisms leveled. I played a vintage 6G15 at Winfield Thomas’ shop, a while back, and it was amazing. I could buy a vintage tank any time I wished to, but I’m playing gigs rarely these days and just can’t justify the expense. I’m perfectly fine with the results I get from the True Spring, or the Catalinbread Topanga. I’ll be the first to admit that it’s not the same, but for my purposes either is adequate.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.