Help needed for vintage "hollow" tone

rabbix

Joined: Jul 20, 2023
Posts: 6

Posted on Jul 20 2023 04:55 PM

Hello fellow surf music enthusiasts,

I am an amateur surf music guitarist and I have been playing for a few years now. I'm seeking some guidance from the experienced players in this community to help me achieve a specific surf music sound that I can't seem to nail down.

I currently play with a Fender Jaguar and a Fender GTX 100 amp, and I recently acquired a SurfyBear Metal reverb unit. However, I'm struggling to replicate the sound I'm aiming for, especially in this music (Downton by the Avengers VI).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhbwyNVEVDI.
It sounds hollow to my ears, but it's challenging to put into words precisely.
I've also noticed a similar effect in the song 'The Quiet Surf,' though it's not as pronounced as in the previous video I shared.
https://youtu.be/HnPia9Go70o?t=32

I wonder if any of you could offer some advice on how to achieve this particular tone. I've experimented with different settings on my gear, but I can't seem to get it just right. Any tips on amp settings, reverb unit adjustments, or guitar setup modifications that might help me get closer to that sound would be greatly appreciated.

As a bonus question, I've also been trying to replicate the sound in Diamonds from the Ventures.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA097ydU5mU
The sound seems somewhat very deep, and I suspect they might be tuned in Drop D. Despite trying various guitars (Jaguar, Stratocaster and Jazzmaster) and modeling amps, I can't seem to get that sound either.
I know the Ventures used to play with Mosrite guitars, but I don't have any guitar with P90s to test.

Any insights or suggestions you can provide would be incredibly helpful and appreciated. I'm eager to learn from your expertise and continue my journey in the world of surf music. Thank you all in advance for your support!

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psychonaut

Joined: Dec 08, 2007
Posts: 1308
2 Download Pins

Posted on Jul 20 2023 05:45 PM

.

—

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http://coffindaggers.com/
http://thecoffindaggers.bandcamp.com

Last edited: Apr 01, 2024 08:56:56

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rabbix

Joined: Jul 20, 2023
Posts: 6

Posted on Jul 21 2023 03:45 AM

Thank you so much psychonaut!

I would never have thought of a Fender Mustang.
Too bad I'm not a fan of the look of this guitar but I'll try one, if that's really the tone I'm chasing (hoping a Squier will do the job).
I'll also see if there are any effects pedals to get a similar out-of-phase effect.

Out of curiosity, how did you know that the Avengers VI used a Mustang? Do you recognize the sound, or do you know more about them?
I've found almost nothing about them.

Thanks also for your answer about the Diamonds song.
I hadn't thought of a baritone guitar either.

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simoncoil

Joined: Sep 28, 2012
Posts: 928
Berlin, Germany
1 News Pin

Posted on Jul 21 2023 04:06 AM

The Avengers VI are pictured with Mustangs (and a Rickenbacker) on the cover of their album:

However, there are also pictures of them using Jaguars:

Regarding the guitar tone of Richie Allen (Richard Podolor): He stated in an interview that his surf songs were all recorded either with a Gibson SG (with vibrato and three pickuos) or a Les Paul Goldtop (P90's). Since you can hear vibrato on the chords in "The Quiet Surf" (which I love and have played live at almost every gig I did for the last ten years), my guess would be that it is the SG.

—

Los Apollos - cinematic surf music trio (Berlin)
"Postcards from the Scrapyard" Vol. 1, 2 & 3 NOW available on various platforms!
"Chaos at the Lobster Lounge" available as LP and download on Surf Cookie Records!

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rabbix

Joined: Jul 20, 2023
Posts: 6

Posted on Jul 21 2023 05:43 AM

Thanks simoncoil.
The album cover from the Avengers VI was so small that I always thought these were Jaguars.

Good to know for the Gibson SG!
Indeed, the Quiet Surf is one of the best surf songs.

Last edited: Jul 21, 2023 05:45:57

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Tqi

Joined: Dec 07, 2014
Posts: 1222
2 Security Pins

Posted on Jul 21 2023 08:04 AM

-

Last edited: Feb 02, 2024 16:23:51

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DeathTide

Joined: Apr 13, 2018
Posts: 1383
New Orleans
United States

Posted on Jul 21 2023 09:28 AM

I do not have any experience with mustangs, but I did once wire a phase switch on a jag and it sounded like absolute crap, nothing like that tone of Downtown. It was much thinner and had almost zero bass. That Downtown tone to me sounds like a jag bridge pickup with the strangle switch engaged.

—

Daniel Deathtide

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DannySnyder

Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11079
Berkeley, CA
United States

Posted on Jul 21 2023 10:17 AM

While listening I was thinking that lead guitar sounded sort of like a Rickenbacker, and lo and behold someone's holding one on the album photo.

—

Danny Snyder

"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo

I am now playing trumpet with Prince Buster tribute band 'Balzac'

Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta

Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party

Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF

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rabbix

Joined: Jul 20, 2023
Posts: 6

Posted on Jul 21 2023 11:39 AM

I'm not sure I'd want to change the electronics on my guitar without being sure. Also, I doubt the recording was made from a Jaguar.
Although I'm probably using the wrong amp, there's none of that out-of-phase effect you hear on Downtown when testing with a Jaguar.
Here, I tested with the neck and bridge position, bridge and bridge with the strangle on. I can't really hear the difference with or without the strangle.
https://vocaroo.com/12NmlUsxaasm

I think the most plausible theory is that they used a Mustang with the right pickup positions, but it's not possible for me to verify other than testing in store.

Last edited: Jul 21, 2023 11:40:29

Top

psychonaut

Joined: Dec 08, 2007
Posts: 1308
2 Download Pins

Posted on Jul 21 2023 11:50 AM

.

—

https://www.facebook.com/coffindagger
http://coffindaggers.com/
http://thecoffindaggers.bandcamp.com

Last edited: Apr 01, 2024 08:58:07

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rabbix Joined: Jul 20, 2023 Posts: 6	Posted on Jul 20 2023 04:55 PM Hello fellow surf music enthusiasts, I am an amateur surf music guitarist and I have been playing for a few years now. I'm seeking some guidance from the experienced players in this community to help me achieve a specific surf music sound that I can't seem to nail down. I currently play with a Fender Jaguar and a Fender GTX 100 amp, and I recently acquired a SurfyBear Metal reverb unit. However, I'm struggling to replicate the sound I'm aiming for, especially in this music (Downton by the Avengers VI). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhbwyNVEVDI. It sounds hollow to my ears, but it's challenging to put into words precisely. I've also noticed a similar effect in the song 'The Quiet Surf,' though it's not as pronounced as in the previous video I shared. https://youtu.be/HnPia9Go70o?t=32 I wonder if any of you could offer some advice on how to achieve this particular tone. I've experimented with different settings on my gear, but I can't seem to get it just right. Any tips on amp settings, reverb unit adjustments, or guitar setup modifications that might help me get closer to that sound would be greatly appreciated. As a bonus question, I've also been trying to replicate the sound in Diamonds from the Ventures. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA097ydU5mU The sound seems somewhat very deep, and I suspect they might be tuned in Drop D. Despite trying various guitars (Jaguar, Stratocaster and Jazzmaster) and modeling amps, I can't seem to get that sound either. I know the Ventures used to play with Mosrite guitars, but I don't have any guitar with P90s to test. Any insights or suggestions you can provide would be incredibly helpful and appreciated. I'm eager to learn from your expertise and continue my journey in the world of surf music. Thank you all in advance for your support! Top
psychonaut Joined: Dec 08, 2007 Posts: 1308	Posted on Jul 20 2023 05:45 PM . — https://www.facebook.com/coffindagger http://coffindaggers.com/ http://thecoffindaggers.bandcamp.com Last edited: Apr 01, 2024 08:56:56 Top
rabbix Joined: Jul 20, 2023 Posts: 6	Posted on Jul 21 2023 03:45 AM Thank you so much psychonaut! I would never have thought of a Fender Mustang. Too bad I'm not a fan of the look of this guitar but I'll try one, if that's really the tone I'm chasing (hoping a Squier will do the job). I'll also see if there are any effects pedals to get a similar out-of-phase effect. Out of curiosity, how did you know that the Avengers VI used a Mustang? Do you recognize the sound, or do you know more about them? I've found almost nothing about them. Thanks also for your answer about the Diamonds song. I hadn't thought of a baritone guitar either. Top
simoncoil Joined: Sep 28, 2012 Posts: 928 Berlin, Germany	Posted on Jul 21 2023 04:06 AM The Avengers VI are pictured with Mustangs (and a Rickenbacker) on the cover of their album: However, there are also pictures of them using Jaguars: Regarding the guitar tone of Richie Allen (Richard Podolor): He stated in an interview that his surf songs were all recorded either with a Gibson SG (with vibrato and three pickuos) or a Les Paul Goldtop (P90's). Since you can hear vibrato on the chords in "The Quiet Surf" (which I love and have played live at almost every gig I did for the last ten years), my guess would be that it is the SG. — Los Apollos - cinematic surf music trio (Berlin) "Postcards from the Scrapyard" Vol. 1, 2 & 3 NOW available on various platforms! "Chaos at the Lobster Lounge" available as LP and download on Surf Cookie Records! Top
rabbix Joined: Jul 20, 2023 Posts: 6	Posted on Jul 21 2023 05:43 AM Thanks simoncoil. The album cover from the Avengers VI was so small that I always thought these were Jaguars. Good to know for the Gibson SG! Indeed, the Quiet Surf is one of the best surf songs. Last edited: Jul 21, 2023 05:45:57 Top
Tqi Joined: Dec 07, 2014 Posts: 1222	Posted on Jul 21 2023 08:04 AM - Last edited: Feb 02, 2024 16:23:51 Top
DeathTide Joined: Apr 13, 2018 Posts: 1383 New Orleans	Posted on Jul 21 2023 09:28 AM I do not have any experience with mustangs, but I did once wire a phase switch on a jag and it sounded like absolute crap, nothing like that tone of Downtown. It was much thinner and had almost zero bass. That Downtown tone to me sounds like a jag bridge pickup with the strangle switch engaged. — Daniel Deathtide Top
DannySnyder Joined: Mar 02, 2006 Posts: 11079 Berkeley, CA	Posted on Jul 21 2023 10:17 AM While listening I was thinking that lead guitar sounded sort of like a Rickenbacker, and lo and behold someone's holding one on the album photo. — Danny Snyder "With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo I am now playing trumpet with Prince Buster tribute band 'Balzac' Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF Top
rabbix Joined: Jul 20, 2023 Posts: 6	Posted on Jul 21 2023 11:39 AM I'm not sure I'd want to change the electronics on my guitar without being sure. Also, I doubt the recording was made from a Jaguar. Although I'm probably using the wrong amp, there's none of that out-of-phase effect you hear on Downtown when testing with a Jaguar. Here, I tested with the neck and bridge position, bridge and bridge with the strangle on. I can't really hear the difference with or without the strangle. https://vocaroo.com/12NmlUsxaasm I think the most plausible theory is that they used a Mustang with the right pickup positions, but it's not possible for me to verify other than testing in store. Last edited: Jul 21, 2023 11:40:29 Top
psychonaut Joined: Dec 08, 2007 Posts: 1308	Posted on Jul 21 2023 11:50 AM . — https://www.facebook.com/coffindagger http://coffindaggers.com/ http://thecoffindaggers.bandcamp.com Last edited: Apr 01, 2024 08:58:07 Top

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Help needed for vintage "hollow" tone