As a proud owner of a modded Squier VI, which I think has the best fun for bucks ratio on the planet, who's to say that this '62 is even gonna be purchased for playing?
It's an investment, like any item of the huge market for antiques and vintage instrument. Better than gold or stocks IMHO for the long term - these things are one of a kind, from a specific era and hold an epic romanticism around them. Plenty of people appreciate that, thus the value.

edwardsand wrote:

But the thing about this trend of buying guitars as investments all depends on the nostalgia/romanticism attached to it all. There's a certain generation of people who now have a lot of disposable income and are inclined to buy these instruments based on that and the assumption that prices will always go up.

But that will not always be so. As musical tastes and trends change, fewer people will be infatuated with many models, and values will fade unless someone else comes along and makes a splash playing a certain one. Jack White did so for resoglass guitars and Silvertone amps, Kurt Cobain did so for Jaguars and Mustangs.

So I say the same thing about buying a house as I do for guitars - buy it to use, not an investment. People who buy such things and never use them are taking a risk, and can probably afford to do so. I'm not in their league and not going to play their game, but I'm happy to watch from the sidelines and to go visit open houses and play expensive guitars when I'm allowed.

Well stated.

There are people who collect guitars as an investment, and in at least some cases, it works well. Personally, I don’t see guitars as an investment vehicle, in great part because guitars, as important as they are to us, are not essential to survive, and just the time that you need your investments to be at their best will coincide with the time when prices will be decreasing.

I have investments, but I don’t buy things I enjoy, such as guitars, with the idea that these are investments. In the net, I’ve lost a lot of money on guitar purchases.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Collection isn't my thing personally, but I get it.
nismosurf - Sure, most kids won't, but some will, and that's enough.
There will always be romantics. As things modernize and trends change, the 1st gen tech has even more appeal because it is unique and has historic value. That's what "Hipsterism" is all about, for ex.
Also, as for using it, generally, the quality of the higher tier items back then was usually better.

Now tell me, don't you wish you'd have bought all those un-cool vintage '60 Strats, Jags, JM's, Showmans and reverb tanks back in the '80s when everybody was looking to get rid of them?

Even my '65 Showman is worth now twice the value I paid for it less than 10 years ago, though I bought it to play, and still do.
I wish I kept my early '80s synths and drum machines, their prices are crazy now.

And if you don't enjoy the appreciation in your lifetime, your kids might.

Right at the moment, vintage guitars (and strangely, even some vintage amps, which not long ago were a real hard sell) are going through a big wave of popularity and price-gouging. Even vintage reissues, and good American and Japanese-made used guitars have shot up a lot. IMHO, the prices on a lot of new higher-end guitars and amps are nutty, and I think that has tended to pull vintage/used prices up with them. My advice (I used to be a mostly-vintage guitar dealer, in the 90s when it was still fun) is to avoid paying top gouge prices. This same type of wave happened in around 2005-2007, and then the whole thing crashed. If buying with the expectation of appreciation (or even holding value) avoid buying stuff at the top of the market. This is true for any commodity, which collectible guitars are certainly an example of.

One thing that has changed since 2007 is that the supply of clean, vintage guitars has dwindled, and the market is significantly more international than it was then. So that may help buoy prices somewhat in the event of a general economic downturn. But still, I personally avoid paying top-gouge price for stuff. I'm primarily a player, not a collector. But I don't like the idea of taking a bath when buying stuff either.

Also, right at the moment, there are some good alternatives to buying ridiculously priced vintage guitars. Examples have already been given. I think the Classic Vibe stuff and certain reissues are a good alternative. I have found that some of this imported stuff does need work - lots of sharp fret ends, and some need fret leveling and other not-so-trivial setup work. I assume some of this is the result of production in a very warm, humid climate and poor reaction to being shipped to a relatively cold, dry climate. Plus I think some of the wood is not very well seasoned (IMO). But I have found that if I let the wood acclimate some and then take care of the issues, I generally wind up with a pretty good guitar.

The Delverados - surf, punk, trash, twang - Facebook
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DaveMudgett wrote:

Also, right at the moment, there are some good alternatives to buying ridiculously priced vintage guitars. Examples have already been given. I think the Classic Vibe stuff and certain reissues are a good alternative. I have found that some of this imported stuff does need work - lots of sharp fret ends, and some need fret leveling and other not-so-trivial setup work. I assume some of this is the result of production in a very warm, humid climate and poor reaction to being shipped to a relatively cold, dry climate. Plus I think some of the wood is not very well seasoned (IMO). But I have found that if I let the wood acclimate some and then take care of the issues, I generally wind up with a pretty good guitar.

… which is really what most people are looking for. A CV Squier, plus a bit of sweat equity, can be a heck of a bargain. At the end of the day, the greatest value is in the playing.

Collectibility is all well and good, but it only goes so far. A friend of mine owns some great guitars, such as one of Hank Garland’s Byrdlands and Johnny Smith’s Epiphone Triumph. I’ve placed both, and they are great instruments, but I can get sounds every bit as good from my Guild T-400, which is only about 10 years old.

Some of the budget solid bodies available these days, are astoundingly good, and sell for the price of a decent case. I have two Squiers which I wouldn’t bother to replace with US made Fenders. There’s just not that much to gain.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

synchro wrote:

why would I want a massive collection

Only you can answer that! I see a lot of collectors get crap for being collectors from people who use the stuff that they are collecting. These users don't appreciate the collectors, in my opinion. As you point out, who cares if vintage guitars are $20,000 when you can buy a $400 guitar and get almost the same experience? The answer is collectors. Without the collectors, users would have nothing but new, or tattered beat up old junk to play with. There is room in this vast world for both, and the truth is the players and collectors are a far more entwined than most people want to think. If a player is complaining about vintage guitar prices, then they are also a collector! Otherwise they would be happy with their $400 Squires, full stop.

Daniel Deathtide

JohnnyMosrite wrote:

Firetone,
In my opinion - A person has to have more money than brains to buy an instrument for 5 to 6 figures. As much as we like them, they are just guitars - wood and wire.
Trust me, I have instruments that could command those prices; but I sure as hell did not acquire them at those prices.

Case in point:
I like Mosrite guitars - no big secret there.
I recently saw a 1963 set neck Ventures model, serial number 0011 (I think Nokie's was 0008) for over $33,000.00.
Could I acquire it? Yes.
Would I acquire it? Absolutely not. I have a bit too much respect for hard earned money. And the thing isn't going to play or sound any better than the Mosrites I own - at least not $30,000.00+ worth better.

But to you - if it's a "Gotta have", then have at it.

All my humble opinion, of course.
J Mo'

That “63” is of questionable authenticity, and I’m being generous when I say that.

Last edited: Jul 07, 2023 13:50:46

Garret,
Seller may get a bit miffed with me. But I've been "miffed at" before.
So - what the hell..?
I asked these questions on reverb.

Some observations and questions:
1. Switch tip should be metal with a double ring indentation all around the top.
2. Pictures of the circuitry would be helpful. While you are at it, please send a picture of the pot date codes and resistance values of the control pots.
3. Control knobs look like Japanese knock offs. I know what the correct knobs should look like. Picture is a bit fuzzy so perhaps you could send a clearer picture of the knobs close up?
4. A picture of the pickup undersides would also be helpful. Ed Elliott makes the "Logo-less" pickups. They can be distinguished from the 63 originals - your pickup covers just look a little too new.
5. The tuners should be KLUSON double line tuners. Yours look to be single line. What's up with that?
6. Is that finish nitro or poly?
7. The thing looks a bit too unplayed for a 60-year-old instrument. What's the story behind that?
8. The nut should be 1/2-round; yours looks to be 1/4 round. - totally wrong for a 1963 model.

I hope you take these questions in the spirit intended. There are a lot of "fakes" out there and your price is quite steep. It's steep enough that all aspects of that guitar should ALL be authentic.
thanks in advance__

I'll report any feedback.
J Mo'

Last edited: Jul 07, 2023 16:08:07

Response so far:
Regarding the switch tip. It appears the same age as the other plastics and seeing other early examples sometimes with plastic I leave it as an unknown without a build sheet. As each guitar tends to be subtly unique in the early years. Regarding the finish. It is actually much more aged the the photos reveal. I had trouble getting the camera to truly show the finish checking and color aging. In person it feels every bit vintage as a guitar from that period. I expect to have these in-depth reviews with a serious buyer. Note, it was purchased from a notable guitar boutique in Nashville that certified its authenticity. Let me get back to you with your requests.__

And the "Nashville guitar boutique" mentioned suggests either Gruhn Guitars or Carter Vintage.
The "unknown without a build sheet" regarding the switch tip does not give me a warm fuzzy.
Awaiting some more thorough feedback. Stay tuned.
J Mo'

Last edited: Jul 07, 2023 17:58:18

While this thread has gone on a tangent, I find it really informative. It just goes to show that anyone thinking about forking out big bucks for a vintage guitar should pay attention to the details, and there are a lot of details to learn about.