I recently made some comments in the "State of SG101" thread that I'd like to clear up. That thread doesn't seem to be the place to do it, so I started this one.

My name is Chris, and I've been a member here since the beginning of the site (2006?) and was a member of the other instro surf online chat groups before. Cowabunga? Yahoo? I don't remember.

I've spent a fair chunk of the last 23 years talking and playing surf music. I am a proud member of SG101, and looked forward to talking with likeminded people about the music we all love. But, I've noticed in the last 4-5 years (maybe more) that things aren't what they once were. Why? FB has taken it's toll for sure. But this is the place where you could really learn about surf music. And, the info was there to look at later. FB posts disappear in minutes, and the info is seemingly lost once again.

This might be the old man in me talking (I'm 53), but from where I sit, it seems some new members have no interest in anything that came before them. I think to truly know surf music, you need to know the history of it. And SG101 is ground zero for that knowledge. I loved the history aspect of the forum. We learned firsthand from the people that created this music in the 60's. And we (SG101 members) made history. We got Eddie Bertrand out of retirement to play a few more times. We got Paul Johnson to contribute. We got to see Randy Holden! We discovered Eddie B's custom Strat, and got an original Astronauts Showman amp into deserving hands. Some truly great early and mid 2000's bands contributed to the discussions. Satan's Pilgrims, Space Cossacks, Madeira, Mysterymen, The Surge Slacktone, Pollo Del Mar.... Hell, we got a music festival off the ground, and that spawned several more. I got to meet some of my first wave heroes, and even play with a few. I met BigTikiDude! I've had the chance to play some really great shows with people I've looked up to and made friends from all over the world. And it is all because of this website. So, if I get protective, please forgive me.

It's disappointing to see the decline.

When I said it was all a waste of time, what I mean is if the next generation doesn't care about who came before them, then why have we preserved it here. I always thought the knowledge we gained would be treasured and remembered. I'm not so sure of that now. I suppose I got what I needed from the forums, and I'm grateful for that. So it wasn't a waste of time in that regard.

I've been accused of gatekeeping. In some ways maybe I am. If you don't respect us, and don't contribute something of value to the rest of the group, you don't belong. I like new gear as much as the next guy. When that's all there is, it gets old really fast. If you are here only to promote your band, and not contribute anything of substance ever, don't be surprised when you aren't my favorite member, and I rattle your cage. We don't all have to be friends.

I fear the end is near for this site. It bums me out. I had held out hope that it would return to what once was. I check in daily to see what's going on. That will be a hard habit to break.

"You can't tell where you're going if you don't know where you've been"

Last edited: Apr 10, 2023 17:45:46

I appreciate where you are coming from Chris, but I think that we are bridging two issues here. I’ve been listening to Surf since I was a small child, and hearing this very cool instrumental music on the Top 40 station she listened to. I heard First Wave Surf in real time, watched the Beatles on Sullivan and sadly witnessed the subsequent decline of Surf, thereafter.

Things are changing, and the changes are not always to my liking, As a person that works in cyber security on a daily basis, I stay as far away from Facebook as possible. IMO, Facebook has changed things dramatically, and it has chipped into the forum world.

Beyond that, music has changed. I don’t like all of the changes, but music itself, has changed. Very little of music being currently produced is of any interest to me. The Grande Ole Opry doesn’t sound like Country to me, current hits mostly sound like synths and vocal processing, to me. I have no interest in listening to such music, not to mention playing it.

It’s been my observation that some people interested in Surf have a much different idea of Surf music than I do. I see the same thing in the Gretsch forum I participate in. The old guard were into Chet Atkins, George Harrison, the Byrds and Buffalo Springfield, while many of the new guard barely know who those people are. Many of these members discuss artists and songs I am unfamiliar with, but at least they are Gretsch players and that’s good for the cause, overall.

By nature, I’m a purist. When my age peers were studying Hendrix, I was studying Wes Montgomery. When I started playing as part of my income, I quickly realized that my job was to entertain the audience, not educate them. I think of it as a privilege that I can play some Surf, because it’s something I want to play, and something that audiences usually enjoy. In Tucson, it’s unlikely that a pure Surf band would find many opportunities to play, so we combine Surf with other period music, and the audiences seem to like it.

The problem with gatekeeping is that gates keep people out. We need more people to become interested in Surf Music, and we have to let newcomers in. We can’t expect everyone to relive 1962. To the 40 and under crowd, Pulp Fiction is an old movie. Their interest in Surf is more like my interest in Jazz and Big Band Swing. I loved that music, even when I was in my teens, but my understanding of it was limited, at best, until years later. We can’t expect people newly interested in Surf guitar to walk into a forum with the knowledge and experience of someone that has been interested in Surf for decades.

Likewise, we can’t expect that newcomers to Surf guitar are going to walk in carrying a Vintage Jaguar, a Blonde 6G15 and a ‘62 Dual Showman. For one thing, the supply of vintage gear cannot increase. By definition, there are no new ‘60s Fenders being made. There are a lot of great guitars being made these days, some great amps, and all sorts of effects options that would have been unimaginable 60 years ago.

I would certainly opine that the Brownface Showman amps, early offsets and 6G15s are the sound of much early Surf, but it’s not the only good sound. A few years back, I heard a self-described Instrumental Rock band that sounded great, including the Surf tunes. I heard them from several blocks away, when they were playing an outdoor gig, and when I got to where I could see the band, I was surprised to see that the lead player was on an ES-335 and playing through a Deluxe Reverb. Was it “vintage correct”? No, but it sounded good.

As a matter of personal taste, I don’t care for distortion. I don’t mind light, natural overdrive, but as far as my tastes are concerned I prefer clean and clear sounds, for pretty much every genre. I personally don’t understand someone using a high gain, distorted amp to play Surf, but that’s me. If someone else feels differently, they don’t have to ask my permission.

I see Surf as a subset of Instrumental Rock, which itself is a subset of Rock n’ Roll. My interest follows right down that chain. I enjoyed hearing early Rock n’ Roll and, because of my love for guitar, I loved Instrumental Rock, and saw Surf as an extension of that. I have come to understand that Surf music has a cultural element, which I would be unlikely to comprehend as a small child hearing Pipeline played on WDGY in Minneapolis (which is quite a distance from SoCal, both geographically and culturally). Nonetheless, we appreciated the music and loved it.

DeathTide wrote:

You are a man after my own heart. I did not perceive gatekeeping, rather simply standards. You have reasons for your opinions. Those other fellows need to chill out and let thoughts be aired.

So last week I got an email announcing that my cats' veterinarian is retiring from clinical practice. That rocked my world. He's pretty much the only person I trust and he will be gone at the end of this month.

The world changes and lots of times those changes suck!

Nothing is static, in this world. Veterinarians, Surf Music, Fender guitars, reverb tanks; everything changes. Change can really be painful. Last year, I took my cat to the vet and he told me that he was retiring. He was a trusted professional whose services I truly appreciated, and I’m hoping that his replacement is as likable.

If you think about it, Surf Music is an amazing success story. It has endured for over 60 years now, and still retains its identity. There are very few things from the early ‘60s that are a part of life today.

Music changes and evolves. Jazz grew from its New Orleans roots into Swing and then forward into BeBop, Cool Jazz, and more modern variations. In the ‘60s, some Rock bands began to incorporate some elements of Jazz. This could be seen as corruption of Jazz, and that is how I would have seen it, at one time. My sentiments have changed regarding this, and I accept this for what it is.

In the late ‘60s, on into the ‘70s, clean guitar sounds with prominent reverb was rare in the Rock world, the only exception coming to mind being the guitar solo in the Doors’ Riders On the Storm. Country used that sound, especially the Bakersfield variety, but in the Rock world that sound was quite passé. Since the ‘90s, a lot of clean, reverb-laden guitar music has been created. It’s not necessarily Surf, but it could be considered an influence, just as Jazz influenced some ‘60s and ‘70s Rock.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Last edited: Apr 10, 2023 21:41:11

dp wrote:

I heard a surf song on the radio the other day, "Wayward Nile" by the Chantays: I smiled a bit to my self as I drove along... most folks don't listen to "random radio" anymore... that's where surf truly shines: when it interrupts everything else and punctuates and demands attention... surf and Bach are eternal in my book...

That’s exactly what it was like when I was a child. Surf might have been played every hour or two, interspersed with the Top 40 material of the day. We waited for these songs to come out, and we were delighted when we heard them.

Over the last few months, I have spent a lot of time practicing some Surf songs, with attention to optimizing technique. Some has to be Rock n’ Roll technique, but there’s room for some great arpeggios, and there is a degree of connection to classical LH technique. I now use Surf as a way to keep my long arpeggios in shape, and have even experimented with using Surf as a way to practice RH classical technique, although my PIMA skills are no longer what they once were.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

twangster99 wrote:

The universe is always moving forward. It does want us all to move along with it, it really does. But it won't stop for anyone.

This is a great truth. As I said in an earlier post, Surf has been incredibly successful to have lasted 60 years, and still be recognizable. No one knows what the future will hold.

We live in a time of upheaval and such upheaval will reflect in the arts. Translated: I expect music, overall, to get worse, before it gets better. Fortunately, because of the Internet, special interests can be shared with like minded people, and this is exactly what makes forums like this so valuable. We need meeting places where people can keep things like Surf Guitar alive, where bands can announce recordings and where newly interested people can find us, via the search engines.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

I've found myself using forums more and more again over the last year or so. I haven't posted here for quite some time, but I'm getting tired of FB and my FB-surf-related-comments there should go here instead!
Thanks for keeping the site going, Brian!

Keep it ol'school and support your local internet forum, ehh

El Twitter
El Ray
El Ray on Bandcamp
El Twang on YouTube

Last edited: Apr 11, 2023 03:07:36

In my neighborhood right now, it seems most garage band sorts of folks are either playing some version of "metal", or more frequently, "nortenas and mariachi"...the guy who lives in the house behind ours is a dedicated "beat mixer" in his shed...the dope beats emanate repetitively and waft over the neighborhood floating on the aroma of sinsemilla... the musical tastes of young folks are ghettoized and siloed by things like streaming services, genre-fication, and social media algorithms. The music world is over-priced, over-hyped, over-marketed, overly-segmented... but what isn't these days? Nonetheless: surf never really was any of these things... surf to me always just seemed a labor of love, the only real reason to play it was the sound and the power ... I mean, even Dick Dale struggled throughout his time here to make a living at it , and as we all know, he was instrumental in the development of surf as we know it...

Last edited: Apr 11, 2023 07:40:43

Let me rephrase my last paragraph a little: this feels like as our ship is sinking, somebody wants to discuss our daily ship operations.

Storm Surge of Reverb: Surf & Instro Radio

dp wrote:

In my neighborhood right now, it seems most garage band sorts of folks are either playing some version of "metal", or more frequently, "nortenas and mariachi"...the guy who lives in the house behind ours is a dedicated "beat mixer" in his shed...the dope beats emanate repetitively and waft over the neighborhood floating on the aroma of sinsemilla... the musical tastes of young folks are ghettoized and siloed by things like streaming services, genre-fication, and social media algorithms. The music world is over-priced, over-hyped, over-marketed, overly-segmented... but what isn't these days? Nonetheless: surf never really was any of these things... surf to me always just seemed a labor of love, the only real reason to play it was the sound and the power ... I mean, even Dick Dale struggled throughout his time here to make a living at it , and as we all know, he was instrumental in the development of surf as we know it...

A few years ago, I told a coworker in his early 30s that I played guitar and was in a band. He immediately assumed that I played Metal. When I told him that I played Jazz, Country and Surf, I don’t think he even began to understand what that meant. His experiences would have led him to believe that anyone that played a guitar was playing Metal. Based upon his life experience, Jazz guitar, Surf guitar and classic Country would be little more than a curiosity.

Surf, perhaps somewhat uniquely, has endured as well as it has because of the appeal of clean, powerful guitars with reverb. That sound seems to cross generational boundaries quite well, and has an appeal that doesn’t require context, to be appreciated. It was perfect for the soundtrack of Pulp Fiction, not because Pulp Fiction had anything to do with Surf culture, but because it sounded great. I didn’t begin liking Surf Music because it was Surf Music, I liked it because it sounded great, no matter what it was called.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

I'm with Futureboy. But we need people that understand IT, and I'm not that. I'll keep monitoring to see how to help.

Surfcat

CHRISTMAS ON THE BEACH - SINGLE
CHRISTMAS ON THE PIER - EP

NEW - MARCH OF THE DEAD SURFERS (Released Oct 17, 2024) - Agent Octopus
YOUTUBE Video - March of the Dead Surfers NEW

SPOTIFY LINK - AGENT OCTOPUS - SURF

The mode of this site is quite anachronistic. That should not offend anyone here, I bet. I dig it. I don't use it as much as I used to. Then again, it should not be expected in the age of real-time social channels. This fulfills a different purpose than TikTok or whatever, and for that I am glad.

It could use some improvements, of course. Then again, what can't use improvement? Nothing difficult and worth anything comes to mind right offhand.

I would be happy to lend a hand, if needed. Have some skills. Have some money. Perhaps a division of labor is in order, so that Brian does not have to shoulder the entire load and can get on with living his life? He has paid more than the fair share of his dues, TBQFH. Just a thought...

SSIV

Last edited: Apr 11, 2023 14:08:34