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SurfGuitar101 Forums » Gear »

Permalink New Fender 68 Silverfaces - which one?

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I am considering buying a new Fender amp and have gravitated towards the '68 Silverface Reverb lines.
I think my choice comes down between these two, which I think with either I can't go wrong.
68 Deluxe Reverb
68 Custom Pro Reverb.

I am only a home and occasionally
a backyard jam player that seeks the quality clean sounds made famously Fender.
I have enjoyed a Blues Junior for 20 years and have another Peavey Classic 20 head to a custom cab with a 15" Eminence.

I really like the looks of the 68s, and I will be using pedals, which both amps have been suited for.

My debate comes down to this:
The DR is 22 watts and the ProR is 40 watts.
I don't need the 40w power but my understanding is it will provide more clean headroom. (? realative to what?)
Whereas the DR is 22 watts and reportedly breaks up early just over 3 on the volume.
That seems like a small range of sweep on the settings.
Other considerations are the PR has a solid state rectifier and the DR has a tube rectifier.

Lastly, the DR has 2 channels with the Vintage and Bassman tone stack, which would compliment a few extra tone possibilities.

I play 62 Jaguar, 65 Strat, 58 Telecaster and 59 Gretsch Nashville (the only humbucker setup)

I mostly enjoy clean reverbed Surf genre and some Rockabilly, with the occasional stomp boxed dirt and rock.

Appreciate any experience and advice.
Thanks Jeff

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Last edited: Dec 23, 2022 08:26:44

I have had the '68 Vibrolux Reverb for a handful of years. The "backyard jam" point you made suggests to me that you may play with acoustic drums. I think (in my estimation) that the Pro Reverb will be loud enough to keep up with drums before it starts really getting grind-y. Perhaps the DR will start sagging/grinding at that level. But hey that is a great sound, too!
Having the Bright switch means that you can tame the spikes if you plan to use any fuzz pedals, so for that alone, I know that the Pro would be my choice. There is no clear-cut winner over the other...they would probably both fit the bill great for you. Good luck with your decision.

Lorne
The Surf Shakers: https://www.facebook.com/TheSurfShakers
Vancouver BC Canada

Thanks for input ShakeNStomp!

Another thing I see in specs is there is NO Mid control on the DR but there is on the ProR.
That along with the Bright switch are plus for the ProR.
It's $100 more for a reason.

IceratzSurf wrote:

Thanks for input ShakeNStomp!

Another thing I see in specs is there is NO Mid control on the DR but there is on the ProR.
That along with the Bright switch are plus for the ProR.
It's $100 more for a reason.

I think a mids control would be good to have but I consider it a "plus" if you already prefer it to the DR. Having the Bright switch is the key for my needs but YMMV. Ultimately, the best suggestion anyone can give is to try them out in-person. For myself, I use the aforementioned 68 Vibrolux for surf performances and either a mic'd-up FSR Princeton Reverb w/12" speaker or the Vibrolux when I am playing in my non-surf covers band. I use either one when I am doing home recordings.

Lorne
The Surf Shakers: https://www.facebook.com/TheSurfShakers
Vancouver BC Canada

ShakeNStop, after researching a bit more about both amps and checking on your now discontinued Vibrolux, I see some power tube differences worth mentioning.
The DR uses two 6V6 tubes where the ProR uses two 6L6 tubes.
I am no expert on tubes but from what I read online I hear that the early breakup of the DR is due to the tubes.
And that a pair of 6L6 has a warmer sound with later breakup.
I thought that the early breakup was due to an amps wattage rating.
Maybe it's the combination.

I then learned that your Vibrolux uses paired 6L6,

I think this tube selection is becoming more of a choice for me.
I understand that you can't swap tubes in amps either, so my choice is leaning towards the 68 Pro Reverb using 6L6.
My early concerns about buying it based on excessive wattage is not really the issue.
I think this will provide the best clean headroom I'm looking for.

Does anyone have any experience with this particular amp?

Ive played the new Pro a few times at GC. it’s solid, it’s Fender, and it sounds like it should. I could gig with one today, easily.

Tele295 wrote:

Ive played the new Pro a few times at GC. it’s solid, it’s Fender, and it sounds like it should. I could gig with one today, easily.<

Thanks for feedback Tele!
I have done more research and still have not played it, doubt I will be able to.
I am now concerned that it might be too much wattage for my home use, even tho great for backyard jams outside.
I am interested to know what the LOW volume will be like, , not caring about breakup, just clean tones. Some reviews stating it can't be turned up over 1.5 for indoor use.
So, I am now considering a Princeton just for the reason of lower wattage for that purpose.
I like the limited edition 65' models with the 12" speakers, one by Guitar Center uses a Celestion G-12 65 and one by Sweetwater uses an Eminence Cannabis Rex (which I already have in a custom cab, and like)

...decisions....

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Last edited: Dec 29, 2022 10:19:14

I have also been considering buying the 68 Princeton , well, because I like the looks of Silverface, and then replacing the speaker to a choice 12" of some sort.

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Last edited: Dec 29, 2022 10:17:53

I own a ‘68 Custom Deluxe Reverb, so maybe I can shed some light on the subject. There are several differences between it and the Deluxe Reverb RI. Both channels operate in phase with one another, and both have reverb, on the ‘68 CDR. The first channel has a .022 mFd capacitor which controls the midrange, as opposed to a .047 cap, which is standard for the Deluxe Reverb. This gives a stronger midrange, which brings you a little closer to the sound of the early ‘60s amps used in most Surf recordings. They call this a Bassman tone stack, and it is similar to what you’d find in a blonde Bassman. This is also similar to the tone stack of the Super Reverb, which has a rich sound with a solid midrange.

The ‘68 Custom series amps use a higher value negative feedback resistor, which reduces headroom, slightly. They are deliberately going for earlier breakup. For myself, desiring a clean Surf sound, this was not a plus. In my case, the solution was to install a second negative feedback resistor of the same value in parallel. This restored the headroom and made things better.

The 6V6 vs. 6L6 power amp makes for about 3 dB more headroom. Basically, every time you double the power, you add 3 dB of headroom. 3 dB is the minimum change of volume that the average person can detect. So, if you look at the line of Fender amps, the 22 watt Deluxe Reverb is 1.66 dB louder than the 15 watt Princeton, the 40 watt Pro is 2.59 dB louder than the 22 watt Deluxe Reverb, and an 85 watt Twin Reverb is 3.27 dB louder than the Pro. The decibel scale is logarithmic, so it’s a bit tricky to comprehend, but it’s reasonable to say that each step, from the Princeton to the Twin is a slight increase in clean headroom, but this does not account for difference in speaker efficiency and other factors. (Nothing is ever as simple as we would like.) I would opine that the changes in the negative feedback resistors in the Vintage Modified Series probably account for about 3 dB of reduced clean headroom. It’s not dramatic, but when the negative feedback resistor value on my amp was reduced (by connecting a similar resistor in parallel), there was a noticeable increase in headroom.

One other difference between the ‘68 Custom Deluxe Reverb and the Deluxe Reverb Reissue is the “Bright Cap”. Some explanation might be in order. The Bright Cap is a high pass filter, which allows high frequencies to bypass the volume control, giving a brighter sound. Amps with a Bright Switch, allow you to switch this capacitor in, or out, of the circuit, but on a stock Deluxe Reverb, there was a 47 pF cap, permanently in the circuit on the Vibrato channel, only. This works in parallel with the volume pot, so the amount of upper harmonics passed will vary in proportion to the position of the volume pot. In simple terms, the higher you turn the volume control, the less effect the Bright Cap has on the overall sound.

On the ‘68 Custom Deluxe Reverb, neither the Custom or Vintage channel has a Bright Cap. To my ear, the Vintage channel sounds a bit listless at living room volumes. To the best of my knowledge, the circuit board on the ‘68 CDR has the pads and traces for C10, the Bright Cap, so it would be a simple matter to install a Bright Cap, at the sacrifice of your factory warranty.

My ‘68 CDR had a terrible problem, when I first bought it. It had a harsh, crunching noise, which always seemed to show up at gig volumes, but couldn’t be duplicated at home volumes, or when I took it to the shop of the local Fender Repair guy. He is a good fellow and spent no little time in trying to find the source. Finally, he was able to produce the sound by wiggling the reverb cables. Yes, some genius at Fender sought to save a few pennies per unit by specifying the cheapest RCA cables known to man. One simple change, and that problem was solved.

The stock speaker in these amps must have been spec’d by the same cost accountant, because, while it sounds ok at lower volume levels, if I push it, the amp sounds like it’s been eating a lot of beans, if you get my drift. Simply stated, the lows become flatulent at higher volumes, with the stock speaker. I wouldn’t be concerned for home use, but if you are trying to compete with a drummer, you might feel the need to install a different speaker.

One last matter, is the difference between the Princeton and the Deluxe. Princeton amps, use a Cathodyne Phase Inverter, while the Deluxe Reverb uses a Long Tailed Pair. The difference is that the Cathodyne PI is a zero gain device which uses a single triad, while the Long Tailed Pair uses two triads (both sides of one 12AT7 tube) and provides some gain in the phase inverter.

For home use, I would think that the 22 watt Deluxe Reverb would remain clean, but the ‘68 CDR might end up at the edge of breakup. A Princeton is probably adequate, but a Princeton from the Vintage Modified series will have somewhat lower headroom and may be marginal for clean sounds, even at home volumes.

I would suggest that you might want to consider a Winfield Elizabeth, which is basically a refinement of the mid ‘60s Fender circuit. The Elizabeth can handle 6V6 or 6L6 power tubes, so you can operate at Deluxe Reverb or Pro Reverb power levels by swapping power tubes and re-biasing. Mine has 6L6s and is docile enough for living room use, but also sounds great at gig levels. Its last outing was an outdoor venue, and it held up quite well, at fairly high volume levels.

Even better, there is a Bright Switch, so you have flexibility that the Deluxe Reverb lacks. It also has a three-band tone control, so midrange response is adjustable. You might be able to persuade Winnie Thomas to use a .022 mFd cap in the midrange control, which would get you that Bassman/Super-Reverb tone stack, just like the ‘68 CDR. It is a single channel amp, and weighs about 8 pounds less than the ‘68 CDR. The price for one of these is comparable to a ‘68 CDR.

My last point is a matter of taste. While the Princeton Reverb is a lovely amp, I find the stock 10” speaker, not to my liking. As I said, this is a matter of taste, but I strongly prefer 12” speakers for a beefy sound on the lower strings. I have a Winfield Tremor, which is basically a refinement of a ‘62 Princeton circuit, with a single 12” speaker and truly spectacular bias-varying tremolo, but no reverb. This is my favorite Surf amp, and offers a nice balance of midrange, lows and highs. The Tremolo is world class.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

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Last edited: Feb 02, 2024 15:53:32

Synchro thanks for the well detailed response!
Lots to consider moving forward and plan to return to the amplifier in detail in the near future, please stay tuned as I have some great ideas coming.

Tqi you are spot on for the style matching and I am one to boast of my own home built cabinet!
Surf green to match the recent Jaguar rebuild conversion to single coil.
So after much thought for which stock amplifier to choose, I realized I was focusing on the speaker between models becoming the deciding factor.
So why not research and buy the best speaker I can and place into the awesome cabinet I already have and listen to the result?

It's decided that I ordered a Weber California ceramic 12" with the light dope and aluminum cone...we are going sparkling away here!

The cabinet I made is premium built with Baltic birch and epoxy assembly.

The speaker I have in it now is not bad a Canabis Rex 12" It does not have the sparkle I seek but is very clean.

Now the amp head I have is surprisingly good, Peavy Classic 20 with attenuator.
I can get a lot or range and it's clean.
I will have to dive into the details of it later. But it most likely not the end game.
I was thinking about chopping down a Princeton reverb into a head!
I am considering building a head from a kit too.
Much to decide.
But the stock amplifier is kind of being shelved until I explore sounds on the new cabinet.
Which also BTW is getting a makeover as well. ..you are really going to like the style!

Thanks for your replies guys.
Happy New Years!

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Last edited: Dec 31, 2022 16:44:58

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