Fronkensurf
Joined: Jul 29, 2014
Posts: 55
Cincinnati
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Posted on Mar 16 2022 01:56 PM
I went to the local guitar shop to get some picks today and happened to play a Squire 70's Jaguar...the one with block inlays.
Anyway, besides lacking the right trem arm and being set up with 9s, it actually played really well, with a nice low action and no buzzing.
What I mostly noticed was that notes above the 12th fret (especially on the low E string) sustained and rang out clear.
On my AVRI Jag and AVRI Jazzmaster (both 7.25 radius boards)I can never get notes up that high on the fretboard to ring that well. No amount of shims (the good Stewmac kind), bridges (Mastery, Mustang, stock) strings (flatwound, roundwound...all 12s at least) seems to help with this.
No matter what I try, I can't get anywhere near the sustain and clarity of notes that cheap Jag had today.
So what am I doing wrong? A 7.25 board should fret out some on bends sometimes, but do the rest of you who play with this radius just deal with it? Do notes high up on the wound strings just sound dead to you also? Or do you have some secret I haven't tried yet?
By the way, here's a shameless plug from a gig we did last month here in Cincinnati with The Ampfibians: https://www.facebook.com/TheRockinAndSurfinShow/videos/676542163346105
Last edited: Mar 16, 2022 22:07:28
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cirecc
Joined: Mar 06, 2006
Posts: 311
seattle, wa
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Posted on Mar 16 2022 04:33 PM
Are you talking about fretting out while bending? If so, I can’t help much. If by fretting out, you mean fret buzz, then the action should be higher and/or you need to level the frets (which can also be the case while bending). I’m not sure what to tell you other than that unless something else is happening like your pickups are too close and the magnetic pull is choking those high notes.
A 7.25” fretboard should be just fine either way though. If you played that guitar the same way, I can’t imagine that you can’t set up your guitars to play just as well if not better.
— -Eric
New music!
https://thedesolatecoast.bandcamp.com/releases
Spotify
Also:
https://theverb.bandcamp.com/
https://www.facebook.com/theverbseattle/
Last edited: Mar 16, 2022 16:34:09
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Fronkensurf
Joined: Jul 29, 2014
Posts: 55
Cincinnati
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Posted on Mar 16 2022 05:07 PM
No. Not bending. Just something like fretting the E A or D string at the 12th fret or higher. I can set the action high, I can set it low. Doesn't seem to change (except it obviously gets worse if you go so low that the note is just fret buzz)...
It always feels like the string is buzzing on the next highest fret...even if the action is fairly high. Right now I'm tempted to take the neck shim out and start from scratch.
And I had the frets cleaned and dressed recently. Neck had a slight bow which my luthier corrected. He's a really good guy. Very well-respected.
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Ben
Joined: Feb 11, 2007
Posts: 591
Encinitas, Ca
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Posted on Mar 16 2022 10:05 PM
I would try raising the saddles a little first. Or, maybe it's shimmed too much. But, it's also normal to have a slight relief bow in the neck. It's hard to say for sure without looking at the whole guitar in context. A good set up is adjusting all of these things in relation to each other until it plays clean and feels comfortable to your playing style.
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cirecc
Joined: Mar 06, 2006
Posts: 311
seattle, wa
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Posted on Mar 16 2022 10:17 PM
I agree that you should have some relief in the neck though that usually clears up fret buzz and rattle on the lower/middle part of the neck. I would try the saddles. Relief could help, I just would look to that to help closer to the nut assuming that I understand you correctly and that the issue is with the higher register.
My reluctance to suggest anything with the shim is that it shouldn’t be caused by neck angle. The only reason I would personally suggest for removing a shim is if you can’t raise the bridge/saddles enough (or your pickups for that matter). Shimming shouldn’t be used to address issues with your action but rather string tension against the bridge.
— -Eric
New music!
https://thedesolatecoast.bandcamp.com/releases
Spotify
Also:
https://theverb.bandcamp.com/
https://www.facebook.com/theverbseattle/
Last edited: Mar 16, 2022 22:18:26
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cirecc
Joined: Mar 06, 2006
Posts: 311
seattle, wa
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Posted on Mar 16 2022 10:20 PM
It’s also a jaguar which starts with lower string tension due to its scale. It could be that you play those strings harder regularly than you did demoing that squier and therefore didn’t notice the fret rattle.
— -Eric
New music!
https://thedesolatecoast.bandcamp.com/releases
Spotify
Also:
https://theverb.bandcamp.com/
https://www.facebook.com/theverbseattle/
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Ben
Joined: Feb 11, 2007
Posts: 591
Encinitas, Ca
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Posted on Mar 16 2022 10:27 PM
I mean the saddles on the bridge...that will help with the higher register more than anything else he can do at this point 
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cirecc
Joined: Mar 06, 2006
Posts: 311
seattle, wa
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Posted on Mar 16 2022 10:36 PM
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SandBug
Joined: Feb 22, 2016
Posts: 443
California
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Posted on Mar 17 2022 01:53 AM
Sounds like you need a professional set up, and most likely fret work, leveling and crowning. Ive been getting my guitars plek'd, and it makes them play better than new, totally worth the investment.
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Redfeather
Joined: Jul 30, 2016
Posts: 896
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Posted on Mar 18 2022 05:53 PM
Yeah, a fret leveling is the first thing to take care of.
If you're feeling industrious, it's really not difficult to do yourself. Here's how I do it:
1) Get yourself a narrow strip of stone countertop. Go to a store that sells that stuff and see if they'll let you dig through their scrap bin. A 3" wide end cut is perfect, as a 24" deep counter yields just the right length. Stone counters are lapped smooth so they're very truly flat.
2) Get a roll of adhesive backed automotive sandpaper. 400 grit or so. Stick a piece to your counter top stone and there's your perfect leveling block.
3) Remove your neck and use the truss rod to adjust the frets to as straight as you can get them. I put the neck frets down on a small marble table I have and try to either rock the neck or tap it hard in the middle to see if the frets are bowed up there. It doesn't actually have to be totally perfect because you'll end up getting them straight anyway but you want to try to keep the frets in the same line as the fingerboard itself.
4) Mask off your fingerboard with tape (this is the most time consuming part of the whole thing) and then use a felt marker to color each fret all the way across as a guide.
5) Run your sanding block back and forth across the neck, lightly and uniformly. Ideally, you let the weight of the block do the work and don't apply any extra pressure. You want to remove as little material as necessary to get the ink sanded totally off. You'll see as you go that the ink comes off unevenly from area to area. That's your fretboard coming into true!
6) You can do a few more passes up past the 12th fret, which I think they call falloff. I don't always do this and haven't noticed an issue.
7) Recrown your frets with the appropriate tool (inexpensive on ebay or elsewhere) and then sand and/or polish them smooth and you're done!
It's very effective and extremely satisfying to do this and after your first one you'll want to do every guitar you have.
Last edited: Mar 18, 2022 17:56:37
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ldk
Joined: Nov 08, 2017
Posts: 369
San Francisco Bay Area
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Posted on Mar 18 2022 06:27 PM
Redfeather wrote:
Yeah, a fret leveling is the first thing to take care of.
If you're feeling industrious, it's really not difficult to do yourself. Here's how I do it:
....
Nice instructions!
Stew Mac sells a fret file set with inserts for three fret sizes. About $50 IIRC. Well worth it over trying to use jeweler's files or some such thing. They leave the frets a little rough, but fine sandpaper finishes the job.
— If I'd stop buying old guitars to fix, I might actually learn to play.
Bringing instruments back to life since 2013.
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Toneschaser
Joined: Jun 14, 2012
Posts: 462
Ohio!
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Posted on Mar 18 2022 07:32 PM
I literally wrote the book on fretting, hahah! I co-authored the Stewmac Fretwork Step-by-Step book with Dan Erlewine.
Message me, I'm happy to help get you headed in the right direction! I might even have a loaner set of tools I could send you to get the job done. I'm just down the road in Athens.
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Fronkensurf
Joined: Jul 29, 2014
Posts: 55
Cincinnati
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Posted on Mar 19 2022 12:14 PM
Thanks Redfeather and Tonechaser. After reading your advice and doing a little more research, I'm thinking you guys are right. I need to order some tools from Stewmac. I'm pretty sure I'm dealing with high frets up high or a rising tongue.
I have this 3/4" thick slab of perfectly flat micarta ( the stuff made from resins and canvas)that I could stick some 300 grit onto and use to level the frets.
Either way, I think the location of the dead notes points to a rising tongue.
Maybe I should play up there more often to help wear them evenly with the south of the 12th fret!
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ldk
Joined: Nov 08, 2017
Posts: 369
San Francisco Bay Area
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Posted on Mar 19 2022 12:39 PM
Maybe it's just one fret that's high. It's easy to check with something like this
https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/types-of-tools/straightedges/fret-rocker
— If I'd stop buying old guitars to fix, I might actually learn to play.
Bringing instruments back to life since 2013.
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SandBug
Joined: Feb 22, 2016
Posts: 443
California
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Posted on Mar 20 2022 05:14 PM
Most of the stuff at Stewmac is waaay overpriced. Fret rockers are usually half the price.... https://tinyurl.com/2p99r86v
Last edited: Mar 20, 2022 17:17:39
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ldk
Joined: Nov 08, 2017
Posts: 369
San Francisco Bay Area
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Posted on Mar 20 2022 05:19 PM
SandBug wrote:
Most of the stuff at Stewmac is waaay overpriced....
Right. That's why I said 'something like this.' $35 plus shipping for a piece of metal with straight edges is pretty ridiculous. Easy to make something oneself for next to nothing.
— If I'd stop buying old guitars to fix, I might actually learn to play.
Bringing instruments back to life since 2013.
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Toneschaser
Joined: Jun 14, 2012
Posts: 462
Ohio!
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Posted on Mar 21 2022 09:04 AM
SandBug wrote:
Most of the stuff at Stewmac is waaay overpriced. Fret rockers are usually half the price.... https://tinyurl.com/2p99r86v
You get what you pay for.
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Toneschaser
Joined: Jun 14, 2012
Posts: 462
Ohio!
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Posted on Mar 21 2022 09:06 AM
Fronkensurf wrote:
Thanks Redfeather and Tonechaser. After reading your advice and doing a little more research, I'm thinking you guys are right. I need to order some tools from Stewmac. I'm pretty sure I'm dealing with high frets up high or a rising tongue.
I have this 3/4" thick slab of perfectly flat micarta ( the stuff made from resins and canvas)that I could stick some 300 grit onto and use to level the frets.
Either way, I think the location of the dead notes points to a rising tongue.
Maybe I should play up there more often to help wear them evenly with the south of the 12th fret!
The offer stands! Let me know if you need any assistance or guidance.
Erick
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jdmcduders
Joined: Jan 14, 2013
Posts: 140
Indianapolis, IN
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Posted on Mar 22 2022 06:55 AM
I need to get some frets properly crowned and I'm finding that fret work knowledge is slowly going away. In town, I know of several of people that used to do it but not too many that work on it now. I guess that means I need to buy your book, Erick. ....when its back in stock.
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Fronkensurf
Joined: Jul 29, 2014
Posts: 55
Cincinnati
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Posted on Mar 24 2022 10:57 AM
Well, I thought before I did any fret work I should change strings and see if that helped. The strings on the guitar weren't that old or worn, but I was suspicious that maybe they were causing the problem. I had a set of med/heavy Pyramid Gold flats I wanted to try out. What can I say? I think they did the trick. The Rotosound Silvers I was using just always sounded awful above the 12th fret. These Pyramids just sound nice and full...with no harsh buzzing or dead notes.
However, I'm hoping there's a break-in period for these because I do notice now that fretted notes on the D string tend to be kind of buzzy. Open D sounds fine, but fretted notes on the D string seem to produce some buzz if I hit them hard. And I usually always hit the strings hard. I've moved the bridge (mustang style) up and down (and even swapped it with another one I have) and it's still a little buzzy.. I know the nuts fine because open D sounds good. Otherwise though, problem seems to be solved.
Last edited: Mar 24, 2022 10:59:22
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