ldk
Joined: Nov 08, 2017
Posts: 369
San Francisco Bay Area
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Posted on Mar 11 2022 10:06 PM
On some surf songs, the guitar has a chimey tone and on some the tone has a metallic edge to it.
On the chimey side, here are two examples from the 2017 compilation:
Murph, Channel Surfing
https://archive.org/details/Surfguitar101.com2017MP3Compilation/09-a-minor-conspiracy-channel-surfing.mp3
The Surge! Been There… Done That
https://archive.org/details/Surfguitar101.com2017MP3Compilation/20-the-surge-been-there-done-that.mp3
On the metallic side there’s the fine album by The Evanstones. Here’s an example, with the rhythm guitar having a lot of this tone.
The Heat, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mGMaZJhX0M.
What kind of setup leads to one tone vs. the other? I assume single coils with a clean tube amp are basic necessities.
For myself, my Topanga peddle and Surfy Bear with an Accutronics tank are on the metallic side. If I turn down the tone with a corresponding increase in dwell, the ‘metallic-ness’ decreases, but I wouldn’t say it gets chimey. I have a Digitech multi-effects pedal that I can set up for some decent chime. I switched from 11’s to 12’s on a couple of guitars, and they seemed to have more chime, but I did not record before and after.
Thanks.
— If I'd stop buying old guitars to fix, I might actually learn to play.
Bringing instruments back to life since 2013.
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edwardsand
Joined: Jun 29, 2018
Posts: 801
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Posted on Mar 12 2022 09:13 AM
To clarify, are you talking about the lead guitar tones on those songs, the rhythm guitar, or both?
For me, I'm a big fan of the more metallic tones (obviously not talking about heavy metal guitar here), which to me come best from bridge pickups with a good bit of treble and a bit of overdrive, and mids turned down a bit. But people may have a different sound in mind when they use that term, because that's not really what I hear on the sample you provide - that one seems to be brighter with quicker notes in the lead line.
Maybe to get what you are looking for with a chimey sound, you could turn down the treble on the amp or turn down the tone on the guitar. I think the chimey sound may have a touch more mids in it, so you could turn that up on your amp (if you have a mid control).
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ldk
Joined: Nov 08, 2017
Posts: 369
San Francisco Bay Area
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Posted on Mar 12 2022 10:49 AM
edwardsand wrote:
To clarify, are you talking about the lead guitar tones on those songs, the rhythm guitar, or both?
The lead guitars have the tones I'm trying to illustrate.
Thanks for your suggestions. I'll give them a try.
— If I'd stop buying old guitars to fix, I might actually learn to play.
Bringing instruments back to life since 2013.
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murph
Joined: Dec 16, 2010
Posts: 342
Chapel Hill, NC
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Posted on Mar 12 2022 03:17 PM
Hi, Lee! I must admit I'm surprised to see Channel Surfing referenced for... well, anything actually. LOL It was a demo I put together to try and suss out the transitions for a medley of surf-friendly TV themes that El Mirage decided would be fun to tackle.
The lead guitar is a bone-stock Johnny Marr Jag strung up with 12 flats. I was likely using the bridge/neck in parallel (The Jagmarr let's you run them in series as well), with the volume and tone controls all the way up. I was playing through a Texotica outboard reverb unit (typical 6-6-6 settings) and a Texotica Saratoga amp (very Fender Princeton Reverb-ish) at fairly low volume levels (less than 3).
My signal chain also included a Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive, set to provide (mostly) transparent clean boost. There's also a very good chance I was using the Strymon El Capistan to add a touch of delay. Finally, there was some amount of reverb applied to the lead and rhythm guitar tracks in Garageband, to help them sit together a little better in the mix.
Happy to answer any other questions, although I suspect it wouldn't take long before my ignorance starts showing.  Huge thanks for giving that track a listen!
-murph
— MONDOGUITARO.COM
El Mirage @ Reverbnation
A Minor Conspiracy @ Reverbnation
"I knew I was in trouble when the Coco-Loco tasted like water!" -- morphball
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ldk
Joined: Nov 08, 2017
Posts: 369
San Francisco Bay Area
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Posted on Mar 12 2022 04:56 PM
Murph, thanks for the rundown on how you played that song. A lot of what you used is at least similar to my stuff. I'll definitely try some clean boost.
— If I'd stop buying old guitars to fix, I might actually learn to play.
Bringing instruments back to life since 2013.
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murph
Joined: Dec 16, 2010
Posts: 342
Chapel Hill, NC
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Posted on Mar 12 2022 05:24 PM
No problemo!
It also dawned on me that playing at such low volume levels, likely contributes to less "drive" in the overall tone. It's not really a sonic choice on my part... just trying to prevent someone upstairs from turning off the breaker to the basement studio, because I'm playing too darn loud at night. 
-murph
— MONDOGUITARO.COM
El Mirage @ Reverbnation
A Minor Conspiracy @ Reverbnation
"I knew I was in trouble when the Coco-Loco tasted like water!" -- morphball
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cosmonaut
Joined: Apr 02, 2019
Posts: 339
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Posted on Mar 14 2022 02:33 PM
to me it just sounds like differences in eq, attack, amount of reverb mix or decay, and dry vs less dry recordings. the first two sound like jaguars in the middle position, and the first sounds almost all in the box.
i’m not sure my descriptors of metallic vs chimey align with yours. chimney to me is ‘this charming man’ by the smiths. ‘metallic’ makes me think of the harmonics, treble response, and drip i get from a 6g15 tank with a high mix and tone. the second song has some good drippy reflections, but they’re backed off in the song’s a tad vs the youtube video. the second song also has a different midrange flavor with less treble peaks.
Last edited: Mar 14, 2022 14:38:22
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theWoodhavens
Joined: Oct 17, 2021
Posts: 30
SEATTLE
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Posted on Mar 14 2022 04:04 PM
ldk wrote:
On some surf songs, the guitar has a chimey tone and on some the tone has a metallic edge to it.
On the metallic side there’s the fine album by The Evanstones. Here’s an example, with the rhythm guitar having a lot of this tone.
The Heat, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mGMaZJhX0M.
Thanks for the kind words, ldk! Mel here! I played guitar on this album and can give you insight into what my gear was for the recordings. I toggled between a Princeton Reverb and a Vibroverb. For “The Heat” I ran a MIJ Jaguar with AV65 pickups through a reissue Fender Reverb Unit and into my reissue Vibroverb. Settings for the reverb unit knobs were always usually around the “6” threshold across the board with adjusting to taste for the a individual songs and how they came across the recording mic.
I played both the lead and rhythm on this recording and the dwell for the lead was hovering around 4 for clarity while rhythm parts were around 7? I’ve learned that there’s a fine line between tasteful drip versus muddy drip. I’ve also learned over the years that string attack sometimes figures in to the tone you get. It’s just a bunch of trial and error with settings and each addition you throw in your chain can affect your desired result. I feel I still haven’t completely dialed in settings yet and still learning.
I will add though that the way I approach rhythm guitar is patterned after the Astronauts, The Volcanics, Nebulas, and Satan’s Pilgrims school of rhythm. So, string attack for getting “that” sound is usually more towards the aggressive side.
— the Woodhavens
--seattle surf music--
on Youtube // on Insta // woodhavens.bandcamp.com
Double Crown Records'
The Continental Magazine #32
Last edited: Mar 14, 2022 16:31:16
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ldk
Joined: Nov 08, 2017
Posts: 369
San Francisco Bay Area
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Posted on Mar 15 2022 08:04 PM
Mel, thanks for your response. I really appreciate it!
What I’ve gathered so far is that different tones, to my ear, are achieved with similar setups—single coil PUs, reverb tanks (with settings around 666), and push-pull tube amps.
At this point, I’m happy with the tones I can get with my equipment. I think I need to do some recording with different guitars, pedals, amps and settings to see if I can figure out what combinations lead to what tones. Lots and lots of things to compare, but I hope something simple comes from it.
— If I'd stop buying old guitars to fix, I might actually learn to play.
Bringing instruments back to life since 2013.
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theWoodhavens
Joined: Oct 17, 2021
Posts: 30
SEATTLE
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Posted on Mar 22 2022 12:10 PM
ldk wrote:
Mel, thanks for your response. I really appreciate it!
What I’ve gathered so far is that different tones, to my ear, are achieved with similar setups—single coil PUs, reverb tanks (with settings around 666), and push-pull tube amps.
At this point, I’m happy with the tones I can get with my equipment. I think I need to do some recording with different guitars, pedals, amps and settings to see if I can figure out what combinations lead to what tones. Lots and lots of things to compare, but I hope something simple comes from it.
Don't mention it, Lee! I learned a lot from the community over the years lurking in here. Just sharing what I've learned as well.
Yes to all you mentioned! I think it's also in the pick attack and the type/gauge of strings used. I should credit Frankie from the Volcanics for telling me to go up to .12 flatwounds (or thicker) on my Jaguar. That opened up a new world of tones to me. Experimenting with all these variables should get you the sound you are looking for. Heck, it might even introduce you to a sound you grow to like.
Regarding 'The Heat', I should share that in the studio mix, I had two rhythm guitar tracks going simultaneously underneath the lead guitar. Maybe this effect is also what you are hearing. Here's a live "acoustic" rendition I recorded a few years ago (Due to the pandemic, we couldn't play out/tour to support the record release. Had to find creative avenues to promo it) where you might be able to pick out both rhythm tracks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbGbp3R0lac
— the Woodhavens
--seattle surf music--
on Youtube // on Insta // woodhavens.bandcamp.com
Double Crown Records'
The Continental Magazine #32
Last edited: Mar 22, 2022 12:28:20
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synchro
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 4555
Not One-Sawn, but Two-Sawn . . . AZ.
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Posted on Mar 22 2022 11:57 PM
Great topic.
Channel Surfing is a great sound, and I’m onboard with your description of it as chimney. The moderate (6, 6, 6) reverb settings and both pickups on the Jag make sense. I suspect that the post-prod reverb contributed to the chimney effect, as well and some light delay from the El Cap’ makes sense.
I go for a chimey sound, myself. Depending upon the song, the acoustics, my mood and the phase of the moon, I tend to use plate reverb and/or a Topanga and occasionally a Boss DM-2W analog delay. My observation is that hitting the dwell too hard can make things sound metallic. Occasionally, I use my tank, and as long as the dwell is below 7, it usually doesn’t sound metallic.
While it’s not part of the arsenal of vintage Surf gear, I’ve learned to love plate reverb emulation. The TC Electronic Hall Of Fame Mini with the Plate TonePrint sounds great, and the Catalinbread Talisman is very versatile. If I ever get to build my dream house, I would want a real plate in the basement.
My take on a metallic sound is increase the Dwell. As I understand it, the Dwell control basically controls how hard the signal hits the springs and emulations, such as the Topanga, basically emulate that same effect. Been There, Done That, sounded chimey for the lead, but the rhythm sounded as if the reverb was driving a bit harder. It makes for a great combination. Great drip on that cut.
The Heat definitely sounds more metallic to my ear, but I have to compliment that the reverb levels are not overbearing. I’ve heard more than a few modern Surf recordings where the reverb is cranked, in search of drip, and it quickly becomes wearisome to the ear. The Astronauts set the standard on that, and while they had the best drip I could imagine, it was never over the top.
— The artist formerly known as: Synchro
When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.
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