My jazzmaster has 21 frets but I need 22 frets. Any suggestions?

Sonic_Blue

Joined: Feb 22, 2019
Posts: 190
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Posted on Oct 27 2020 07:08 AM

I need 22 frets to play penetration and also out of limits. Can I swap my neck for a Stratocaster neck that has 22 frets? Any other ideas for a workaround?

Last edited: Oct 27, 2020 07:09:38

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Redfeather

Joined: Jul 30, 2016
Posts: 896
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Posted on Oct 27 2020 10:03 AM

Transposition.

But yeah, a Strat neck fits right on, even if the headstock doesn't look right. Actually, the big 70s neck can be reshaped to closely approximate the Jazzmaster shape.

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shake_n_stomp

Joined: Jan 09, 2014
Posts: 623
Vancouver BC
Canada

Posted on Oct 27 2020 12:11 PM

At the time Penetration was done, there were only 21 frets on Strats...if you play it the way the band originally recorded it, in F#, not G, you are ok with 21 frets. Like a lot of songs of its tume, they were sped up the tape machine a semitone after the recording was done. Much easier to play in F#, too.

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Lorne
The Surf Shakers: https://www.facebook.com/TheSurfShakers
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JohnnyMosrite

Joined: Jun 14, 2006
Posts: 913
New York City area

Posted on Oct 27 2020 12:22 PM

Sonic,
Maybe play Penetration in F#m instead of Gm??? There's a youtube video of the Surfaris playing in this key at a club (Paul Johnson on second guitar)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bKCsWBN6OE
Side benefit - you get to do the Root-Dominant seventh bass notes a lot easier - it's F#-(open)E.. a lot easier than G-F. And you have your high Fifth - C# - at fret 21.

Leo Fender wasn't a musician or guitar player of any real renown. So his eyes would have probably glazed over if someone told him to have a high seventh note as a last note on the high 'E' string instead of the sixth - especially since a lot of guitar music is in the key of "E".
(Disclaimer: My music theory may be off but you get the idea)

I might also think adding a 22 fret neck might cause some interference with your Jazzmaster pickguard or the intonation.
So -
See if you can hook up with someone who has done the swap before you go mucking with your guitar.
Or -
Do what I did - get a MOSRITE...22 frets are standard.

J Mo'

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Sonic_Blue

Joined: Feb 22, 2019
Posts: 190
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Posted on Oct 27 2020 12:29 PM

shake_n_stomp wrote:

At the time Penetration was done, there were only 21 frets on Strats...if you play it the way the band originally recorded it, in F#, not G, you are ok with 21 frets. Like a lot of songs of its tume, they were sped up the tape machine a semitone after the recording was done. Much easier to play in F#, too.

Ok, I just assumed they used a jaguar... I will try playing it in F#. Thanks.

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John

Joined: Aug 23, 2007
Posts: 614
Monterey County, California
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Posted on Oct 27 2020 12:49 PM

No Jag in the Pyramids. Both guitars were Strats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPSTw8PfSos

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www.johnblair.us
www.soundofthesurf.com

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Squid

Joined: Aug 22, 2010
Posts: 1019
Portland, Oregon with Insanitizers
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Posted on Oct 27 2020 01:09 PM

Other possibilities: You could...

...play an artificial harmonic (AKA false harmonic) where the 22nd fret would be. YouTube has several tutorials on this. It's not practical unless you use a thumbpick.

...bend the high E string to raise the note on the 21st fret.

...use a pitch change electronic effect. If you are committed to the key of G you can play the entire song in a lower-pitched key and have the electronic device transpose it to G.

...tune all your strings up one semi-tone to accomplish the same as pitch change electronics without electronic weirdness. This may be the simplest path if you are committed to the key of G.

...use a metal or glass slide (as on a lap guitar) where the 22nd fret should be.

I'm posting these as hypothetical solutions to the general question. The simplest solution has already been posted by others.

—

Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com

Last edited: Oct 27, 2020 13:14:52

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revmike

Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 3860
North Atlantic
Canada

Posted on Oct 27 2020 01:18 PM

I agree with transposing it to F#. That seems like the easiest way with the fewest changes. Everything down 1 fret.

Rev

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http://www.urbansurfkings.com/

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LordWellfleet

Joined: Jul 12, 2012
Posts: 171
Cape Cod, USA
United States

Posted on Oct 27 2020 08:54 PM

Pretty sure Ivan is playing it in F# here.

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TomH

Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Posts: 766
Oberlin, Ohio, USA
1 News Pin

Posted on Oct 27 2020 09:44 PM

I’ve always played Penetration in Gm, many times with a Jazzmaster or a Strat with 21 frets. If you press down real hard where the 22nd fret would be, the correct note does play. It might not sound quite as clear as it should, but I‘ve always gotten away with it.

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beatcomber

Joined: Jun 30, 2019
Posts: 157
Massachusetts, USA
United States

Posted on Oct 28 2020 12:46 PM

Listening to the rhythm guitar part, it's pretty obvious that they are playing in F#m, and the guitarist is lifting his index finger to play the open E.

As others have stated, either the session tape was recorded too slowly, or it was played back too fast during mixing, or the band was accidentally tuned up a 1/2-step (no digital tuners back then!).

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THE HYDRONAUTS…Surf Music from the shores of old Cape Cod.
CLICK HERE to check out our first album, Interstallar Clambake!

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martinblasick

Joined: Nov 27, 2019
Posts: 128
Los Angeles
United States

Posted on Oct 29 2020 06:22 PM

Bend it a half step for that magic note?

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Sonic_Blue

Joined: Feb 22, 2019
Posts: 190
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Posted on Oct 30 2020 05:38 AM

I tuned it to F# and that works perfectly! Now I can get those high notes.

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Sonic_Blue

Joined: Feb 22, 2019
Posts: 190
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Posted on Oct 31 2020 06:26 PM

okay question. I thought I had this. Is there a difference between tuning in F# and F#m? Can someone tell me how to tune to F#m?

Last edited: Oct 31, 2020 18:26:54

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Sonic_Blue

Joined: Feb 22, 2019
Posts: 190
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Posted on Oct 31 2020 06:36 PM

It’s just up 1/2 a step from E?

Last edited: Oct 31, 2020 18:43:05

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edwardsand

Joined: Jun 29, 2018
Posts: 803

Posted on Nov 01 2020 07:01 PM

Tuning in F# would be tuning all strings a full step up. But the point is not tuning in F#, but playing the song in F# minor, which just requires transposing all the notes and chords down a half step.

As for me, I've always played Penetration in F# - as mentioned by beatcomber, it makes the most sense for lifting your index finger to play the open E. Playing in G would be trickier, though you could use a capo.

But in the end, if you must play it in G and have but 21 frets, you can tune up a half step to F, and then play it as if you were playing in F#.

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Ben

Joined: Feb 11, 2007
Posts: 591
Encinitas, Ca

Posted on Nov 01 2020 07:21 PM

Some well meaning and helpful suggestions here but I think the easiest solution is pretty clear. This is a perfect excuse to get a Jag or Strat!!!

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edwardsand

Joined: Jun 29, 2018
Posts: 803

Posted on Nov 04 2020 08:56 AM

By the way, this thread really belongs in the Gear section.

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Sonic_Blue Joined: Feb 22, 2019 Posts: 190	Posted on Oct 27 2020 07:08 AM I need 22 frets to play penetration and also out of limits. Can I swap my neck for a Stratocaster neck that has 22 frets? Any other ideas for a workaround? Last edited: Oct 27, 2020 07:09:38 Top
Redfeather Joined: Jul 30, 2016 Posts: 896	Posted on Oct 27 2020 10:03 AM Transposition. But yeah, a Strat neck fits right on, even if the headstock doesn't look right. Actually, the big 70s neck can be reshaped to closely approximate the Jazzmaster shape. Top
shake_n_stomp Joined: Jan 09, 2014 Posts: 623 Vancouver BC	Posted on Oct 27 2020 12:11 PM At the time Penetration was done, there were only 21 frets on Strats...if you play it the way the band originally recorded it, in F#, not G, you are ok with 21 frets. Like a lot of songs of its tume, they were sped up the tape machine a semitone after the recording was done. Much easier to play in F#, too. — Lorne The Surf Shakers: https://www.facebook.com/TheSurfShakers Vancouver BC Canada Top
JohnnyMosrite Joined: Jun 14, 2006 Posts: 913 New York City area	Posted on Oct 27 2020 12:22 PM Sonic, Maybe play Penetration in F#m instead of Gm??? There's a youtube video of the Surfaris playing in this key at a club (Paul Johnson on second guitar) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bKCsWBN6OE Side benefit - you get to do the Root-Dominant seventh bass notes a lot easier - it's F#-(open)E.. a lot easier than G-F. And you have your high Fifth - C# - at fret 21. Leo Fender wasn't a musician or guitar player of any real renown. So his eyes would have probably glazed over if someone told him to have a high seventh note as a last note on the high 'E' string instead of the sixth - especially since a lot of guitar music is in the key of "E". (Disclaimer: My music theory may be off but you get the idea) I might also think adding a 22 fret neck might cause some interference with your Jazzmaster pickguard or the intonation. So - See if you can hook up with someone who has done the swap before you go mucking with your guitar. Or - Do what I did - get a MOSRITE...22 frets are standard. J Mo' Top
Sonic_Blue Joined: Feb 22, 2019 Posts: 190	Posted on Oct 27 2020 12:29 PM shake_n_stomp wrote: At the time Penetration was done, there were only 21 frets on Strats...if you play it the way the band originally recorded it, in F#, not G, you are ok with 21 frets. Like a lot of songs of its tume, they were sped up the tape machine a semitone after the recording was done. Much easier to play in F#, too. Ok, I just assumed they used a jaguar... I will try playing it in F#. Thanks. Top
John Joined: Aug 23, 2007 Posts: 614 Monterey County, California	Posted on Oct 27 2020 12:49 PM No Jag in the Pyramids. Both guitars were Strats. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPSTw8PfSos — www.johnblair.us www.soundofthesurf.com Top
Squid Joined: Aug 22, 2010 Posts: 1019 Portland, Oregon with Insanitizers	Posted on Oct 27 2020 01:09 PM Other possibilities: You could... ...play an artificial harmonic (AKA false harmonic) where the 22nd fret would be. YouTube has several tutorials on this. It's not practical unless you use a thumbpick. ...bend the high E string to raise the note on the 21st fret. ...use a pitch change electronic effect. If you are committed to the key of G you can play the entire song in a lower-pitched key and have the electronic device transpose it to G. ...tune all your strings up one semi-tone to accomplish the same as pitch change electronics without electronic weirdness. This may be the simplest path if you are committed to the key of G. ...use a metal or glass slide (as on a lap guitar) where the 22nd fret should be. I'm posting these as hypothetical solutions to the general question. The simplest solution has already been posted by others. — Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com Last edited: Oct 27, 2020 13:14:52 Top
revmike Joined: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 3860 North Atlantic	Posted on Oct 27 2020 01:18 PM I agree with transposing it to F#. That seems like the easiest way with the fewest changes. Everything down 1 fret. Rev — Canadian Surf http://www.urbansurfkings.com/ Top
LordWellfleet Joined: Jul 12, 2012 Posts: 171 Cape Cod, USA	Posted on Oct 27 2020 08:54 PM Pretty sure Ivan is playing it in F# here. — Everybody up! https://www.facebook.com/TheHydronauts https://thehydronauts.bandcamp.com/album/interstellar-clambake Top
TomH Joined: Mar 15, 2006 Posts: 766 Oberlin, Ohio, USA	Posted on Oct 27 2020 09:44 PM I’ve always played Penetration in Gm, many times with a Jazzmaster or a Strat with 21 frets. If you press down real hard where the 22nd fret would be, the correct note does play. It might not sound quite as clear as it should, but I‘ve always gotten away with it. Top
beatcomber Joined: Jun 30, 2019 Posts: 157 Massachusetts, USA	Posted on Oct 28 2020 12:46 PM Listening to the rhythm guitar part, it's pretty obvious that they are playing in F#m, and the guitarist is lifting his index finger to play the open E. As others have stated, either the session tape was recorded too slowly, or it was played back too fast during mixing, or the band was accidentally tuned up a 1/2-step (no digital tuners back then!). — THE HYDRONAUTS…Surf Music from the shores of old Cape Cod. CLICK HERE to check out our first album, Interstallar Clambake! Top
martinblasick Joined: Nov 27, 2019 Posts: 128 Los Angeles	Posted on Oct 29 2020 06:22 PM Bend it a half step for that magic note? — Squid From Madrid - New Single on Bandcamp MB Website Top
Sonic_Blue Joined: Feb 22, 2019 Posts: 190	Posted on Oct 30 2020 05:38 AM I tuned it to F# and that works perfectly! Now I can get those high notes. Top
Sonic_Blue Joined: Feb 22, 2019 Posts: 190	Posted on Oct 31 2020 06:26 PM okay question. I thought I had this. Is there a difference between tuning in F# and F#m? Can someone tell me how to tune to F#m? Last edited: Oct 31, 2020 18:26:54 Top
Sonic_Blue Joined: Feb 22, 2019 Posts: 190	Posted on Oct 31 2020 06:36 PM It’s just up 1/2 a step from E? Last edited: Oct 31, 2020 18:43:05 Top
edwardsand Joined: Jun 29, 2018 Posts: 803	Posted on Nov 01 2020 07:01 PM Tuning in F# would be tuning all strings a full step up. But the point is not tuning in F#, but playing the song in F# minor, which just requires transposing all the notes and chords down a half step. As for me, I've always played Penetration in F# - as mentioned by beatcomber, it makes the most sense for lifting your index finger to play the open E. Playing in G would be trickier, though you could use a capo. But in the end, if you must play it in G and have but 21 frets, you can tune up a half step to F, and then play it as if you were playing in F#. Top
Ben Joined: Feb 11, 2007 Posts: 591 Encinitas, Ca	Posted on Nov 01 2020 07:21 PM Some well meaning and helpful suggestions here but I think the easiest solution is pretty clear. This is a perfect excuse to get a Jag or Strat!!! Top
edwardsand Joined: Jun 29, 2018 Posts: 803	Posted on Nov 04 2020 08:56 AM By the way, this thread really belongs in the Gear section. Top

SurfGuitar101 Forums » Surf Music General Discussion »

My jazzmaster has 21 frets but I need 22 frets. Any suggestions?