Our music project is a two piece and you have to be a lot more conscious with song writing. We play originals so we are aware of this every time we write something new. If we were going to play covers, I think not having a bassist or second guitar would be detrimental.

I agree, the "empty spaces" in a composition are just as important as trying to fill the spaces. I feel the challenge is trying to write balanced songs and this leads to sometimes breaking out of the traditional formula of a certain genre. If you are okay with that, you can have a lot of fun as a two-piece or a three-piece!

I am lucky that the drummer is a musician and understands that he does a lot of the filling in with colorful drum play. I mess with my tones as well as use different guitars and amps depending what song or where we are going to play. It just takes a little initial planning, but it can be done!

The Me Gustas
https://themegustas.com

Last edited: Mar 25, 2020 06:52:54

There's a middle ground between playing lots of chords and single note melodies, it's called the 'double stop'. Learn all the positions, there's a scale for them just like for single notes. There's all kinds of hammer-ons and slides you can add as well. It will sound less sparse while still allowing for melodic flow.

I also echo what has been said before about bassists, they need to step up. They can't rest on the tonics and fifths, and they can't be merely a tuned bass drum. They need to combine rhythmic structure as well as harmony or counter melodic support.

I also notice that my favorite players in 3 pieces go back and forth from the top 3 strings to the bottom 3 strings, but rarely play across all 6. The movement between the 2 provides a lot of sonic complexity without getting too muddy

Danny Snyder

"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo

Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta

Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party

Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF

Last edited: Mar 25, 2020 10:01:17

DannySnyder wrote:

This is only my opinion, but I believe a good gretsch guitar works best in a 3 piece. In fact I don't like it at all in 4 piece bands, but it's awesome (in the true sense of the word) when it has the sonic space to do it's thing.

When we went from a four piece to a three piece, I switched from a solid body (either a Jag or a Duo Jet with Dynasonics) to a hollow bodied Gretsch, preferably one with trestle bracing. Trestle bracing was developed as an anti-feedback method and it’s basically a quadruple sound post, tied directly to the parallel braces under the top. The result is much greater focus and excellent treble clarity.

For a Surf sound, I find that the Supertron pickup suits my tastes best. Supertrons have great articulation. I also found that a treble bleed helps.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Excellent info Simon, thanks!

Danny Snyder

"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo

Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta

Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party

Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF

simoncoil wrote:

Okay, I needed to sort my terminology a little on this to make myself understandable, so here it goes: I have been playing in a trio for most of my surf music time, minus a short period where my old band also had a saxophone, but never a second guitar. In this time I came to the conclusion, that the most crucial point of making a trio work lies at the nexus of songwriting and arranging (which to me are two sides of the same coin in the trio context). When it came to writing new songs I started analysing tunes, of which I knew that they worked for a trio and stumbled upon something, which I dubbed "the Podolor model" because it first became obvious to me in songs by Richard Podolor (aka Richie Allen), most notably "The Quiet Surf" and "Casbah". But I'm pretty sure, that Podolor himself got it from Link Wray.

What is this model? If you look at a song as a sequence of parts (intro, verse, chorus, bridge etc.), every new part should have a different "texture" than the previous, by which I mean a combination of the melodical/harmonical content of a phrase with a certain sound from the instrument.

As an example, in "Quiet Surf" the intro consists of chords played as string harmonics, the combination of which is the first texture. The first verse has a melody as single notes on the upper strings interchanged with notes from the open e string and a little phrase on the lower strings at the end. The second verse repeats the melody but in a higher register and without the open e and with a few chords at the end, so it's the same melody with a different sound and thus not the same texture as before. The bridge has another single note melody but on the bass strings, yet another texture. (Note: So far we had three distinct textures (four if we count the chords at the end of the second verse) without even resorting to double picking or any pedal switching! The cleanish surf guitar sound really helps us in this case.)

So, even if the parts all differ in their chord changes, it really are the different textures that stress variety in a song, which definitely comes in handy when you just have one lead instrument. (I hope anybody can make sense of that all...)

I am not saying this is to be followed slavishly or that it's the only way to do it, but it has proven to be a very good starting point for me!

Thanks, that’s really interesting and I really was inspired by Quiet Surf “textures change” in this tune. You may see there three clear changes at least.

Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine

https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki

Lost Diver

https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin

Last edited: Apr 01, 2020 03:02:34

ElBorko wrote:

For the last few years I have played guitar in a power trio. I have learned there's more to it than just filling space. If you have ever tried to play solo guitar versions of rock songs, you find yourself accenting beats two and four like a snare drum and adding bass notes. But when you play in the band, you don’t need to BE the band. Your rhythm section puts the power in ‘power trio’. Let them provide the rhythmic framework.

Less is more. I used to think I had to generate an endless stream of sound but it turns out I didn’t. The busy parts will stand out more if there are contrasting sparse areas. Give the bass and drums some space. Playing not-so-loud increases the relative strength of the bass and drums, which makes the band sound more ‘muscular’. Use chord-melody techniques. And hey! I almost forgot... REVERB!

Great points. It's not just about creating a wall of sound.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Last edited: Apr 02, 2020 18:24:45

Tikidog wrote:

hi samurai,
the razorblades have worked as a trio for more than 10 years

a few concepts are
chord melody ( check out barney kessel, joe pass, wes montgomery)
brian connelly is also doing great in a trio with atomic 7

bass notes in the empty spaces

open strings along with the melody on another string

in general i like to do overdubs on our studio recordings, but a lot of rhythm parts are not neccessary live and get drowned in the sound- unless you play in big venues with a great sound system/ mixer

i think it‘s cool if the live thing sounds a little different than the studio recording. did led zeppelin have a rhythm player ? no, same with hendrix and a lot of other rock guys...

Hi Martin! Thanks!
Your band is one other most inspiring for me during the last years, both in format and stylistics. Just watched yesterday your Surfer Joe performance searching for tips and technics)

Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine

https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki

Lost Diver

https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin

Tikidog wrote:

hi samurai,
then you should definitely get the book:)
i explain several of my concepts and you get quite a few razorblades songs, fully transcribed. i‘m also doing a lot of skype lessons at the moment, just get in touch via

getcutby@ therazorblades.de

I see its a pre-order? Ready to buy any time. Hope it will be delivered ok.
Concerning Skype lessons I will get in touch with by mail or facebook!

Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine

https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki

Lost Diver

https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin

My most successful surf band was a three piece. I think all the others failed because of a second guitar. We even tried 2nd guitarists in the Aquanauts and that failed.

In the Reluctant Aquanauts I probably had the greatest surf drummer and bassist. Neither over played but filled in all the spaces.

Also a big part of a trio working out is writing music that fits your band
We tried Ventures/Los Straitjackets type instros at first and that failed, then I got into Eddie Bertrand and Randy Holden. Somehow that stuff worked with the trio best. What made that work best with the trio? I think the Fender Bandmaster with a outboard reverb unit. That set up became the 4th member.

We then tried to write songs with that similar aggressive approach and we made them work for the trio.

That all said I overdubbed second guitar parts on all our recordings. But I think we sounded better live.

"as he stepped into the stealthy night air... little did he know the fire escape was not there"

https://www.facebook.com/reluctantaquanauts/
https://www.facebook.com/TheDragstripVipers/

Last edited: Apr 11, 2020 11:15:29

BillAqua wrote:

My most successful surf band was a three piece. I think all the others failed because of a second guitar. We even tried 2nd guitarists in the Aquanauts and that failed.

In the Reluctant Aquanauts I probably had the greatest surf drummer and bassist. Neither over played but filled in all the spaces.

Also a big part of a trio working out is writing music that fits your band
We tried Ventures/Los Straitjackets type instros at first and that failed, then I got into Eddie Bertrand and Randy Holden. Somehow that stuff worked with the trio best. What made that work best with the trio? I think the Fender Bandmaster with a outboard reverb unit. That set up became the 4th member.

We then tried to write songs with that similar aggressive approach and we made them work for the trio.

That all said I overdubbed second guitar parts on all our recordings. But I think we sounded better live.

I like that sound, and agree, the live sound really gets it. I prefer the sound of a trio, the openness and airiness of it all. I like to hear the lead guitar battling it out with the backing of just a bass and drums. I love to hear a bass and guitar each forge their own path through a song, complimenting one another.

A good rhythm player can add a lot, and I’ve heard some great ones in my day, but there are many examples of rhythm players that weren’t able to make a contribution without getting in the way.

Once you get into improvisation, it becomes even more of a problem. You are bound by the harmonies the rhythm instrument chooses, be it guitar or piano. If the bass is playing the basic changes, the upper structure of the chords is open to interpretation and an improvised lead line can move freely between reharmonizations of the changes.

I just love trios.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.