JazzIII
Joined: Apr 19, 2019
Posts: 17
Little Rock
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Posted on Apr 19 2019 02:29 AM
Hey kids, brand new to the forum (no clue how I've never been here before). Been a full time fretless bass player for about 25 years, and about to track my first solo album in July- a very heavily surf flavored album.
I'll be cutting tbe rhythm tracks on a bari, and was wondering if anyone had any hints, tips, tricks, warnings, etc that they could offer. The overall tone I'll be going for will be Junior Brown's "snap," but EQ'd more like the guitar on Brand New Cadillac from London Calling.
Any advice is greatly appreciated!
— Forever known as the luckiest man alive.
https://www.facebook.com/zachcarpentermusic/
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Redfeather
Joined: Jul 30, 2016
Posts: 883
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Posted on Apr 19 2019 02:44 AM
I'm curious to hear what anyone might say as well. I have a baritone that I incorporate into my stuff and I've found that EQ is definitely crucial, since there's often so much overlap with the bass.
I want to install a bass cut switch on my baritone but as a stopgap measure, I recently did a strong EQ on one particular track that I thought was contributing to an overall muddy sound. It helped but I don't feel like I cracked the code.
I'm wondering if the other part of the equation might be altering the bass track as well. I dunno. I ain't no expert. But it sounds like you're already on top of the fact that EQing is important. I'd venture to say it's the most important.
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Redfeather
Joined: Jul 30, 2016
Posts: 883
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Posted on Apr 19 2019 02:55 AM
The guitar on that Clash song sounds like a lot of the top end has been rolled off it, right? I guess if you do that as well as thin out the bottom end some, you'll be left with a midrange chunk that mirrors the actual pitch range of the instrument between the others.
Maybe the achievement of Junior's sonic quality can be done through pickup position. What's the baritone you're using?
Last edited: Apr 19, 2019 02:56:52
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JazzIII
Joined: Apr 19, 2019
Posts: 17
Little Rock
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Posted on Apr 19 2019 05:37 AM
I'll be renting, borrowing, or building one. So still not sure. If I end up using someone else's I'll build a jig to hold the pup in the body without having to mod it. So still not sure exactly, but a lot of potential options.
And yes, EQ is going to be 100% essential. I'm thinking I'll have to find a studio parametric to dial it in.
— Forever known as the luckiest man alive.
https://www.facebook.com/zachcarpentermusic/
Last edited: Apr 19, 2019 05:42:15
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Redfeather
Joined: Jul 30, 2016
Posts: 883
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Posted on Apr 19 2019 11:25 AM
The easiest route to a customizable baritone, if you think you might want to own one, would probably be to find yourself a cheap Squier Strat on craigslist and then slap a conversion neck on it. Warmoth sells 28-5/8" necks, Allparts sells 27-3/4" necks.
Last edited: Apr 19, 2019 12:15:07
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JazzIII
Joined: Apr 19, 2019
Posts: 17
Little Rock
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Posted on Apr 19 2019 02:46 PM
You and I think a lot alike. That's exactly what I've been looking at. Any comments or opinions on the shorter vs longer scale lengths?
— Forever known as the luckiest man alive.
https://www.facebook.com/zachcarpentermusic/
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Redfeather
Joined: Jul 30, 2016
Posts: 883
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Posted on Apr 19 2019 10:45 PM
Ha! Well, since you're a bass player I'd say go long since anything will feel shorter than what you're used to.
My current baritone is just 27" scale and it works great. I have thicker than typical strings on it so it's not floppy at all. It definitely thumps like a baritone should but I've noticed through listening to other ones that it doesn't deliver all of that "Junior snap" you're wanting.
So I'm currently building another one! And I'm following my own advice. I got a Warmoth neck and I'm working on figuring out the body. My current 27" one is a hardtail so I figure I'll have all bases covered once I get the long scale, vibrato one in the stable as well.
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JazzIII
Joined: Apr 19, 2019
Posts: 17
Little Rock
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Posted on Apr 20 2019 12:09 AM
On guitar, I typically prefer shorter scale, lol. I'm weird that way.
I've actually contemplatrd building one for some years, just never had the need until now. I'm thinking that once I go that route, I'll probably go with a reverse headstock to add tension to the lower strings. I prefer the response from a longer scale/ tighter string, and seem to get clearer fundamentals with them.
— Forever known as the luckiest man alive.
https://www.facebook.com/zachcarpentermusic/
Last edited: Apr 20, 2019 00:11:11
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Redfeather
Joined: Jul 30, 2016
Posts: 883
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Posted on Apr 20 2019 06:46 PM
String length beyond the nut doesn't have any effect on the tension, though. Ignoring frictional effects at the break points (nut and bridge), the tension is the same everywhere along the string from the ball ends to the tuners.
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JazzIII
Joined: Apr 19, 2019
Posts: 17
Little Rock
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Posted on Apr 21 2019 02:36 AM
Yeah, the tension remains constant along the whole string. But longer string has to be tuned tighter than a shorter one of the same guage to achieve the same pitch. Stumbled on that some years back when I ended up stringing a Fender Jazz up with a lefty headstock. No more flop on the B string.
— Forever known as the luckiest man alive.
https://www.facebook.com/zachcarpentermusic/
Last edited: Apr 21, 2019 02:44:07
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synchro
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 4441
Not One-Sawn, but Two-Sawn . . . AZ.
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Posted on Apr 21 2019 06:49 AM
EQ is important. I occasionally play a Bass VI and it can very easily conflict with the bass and the mix gets very muddy. But the VI is very trebly in timbre and if I don’t cut the highs with the tone knob, the two instruments maintain a degree of separation, but if I EQ it like a bass, it turns into mudd(SIC) and spoils the effect.
One of the biggest challenges with the VI is amplification. IMO, the VI is a hybrid of sorts, capable of being used as a bass or as a baritone, depending upon how it is EQ’d. I’ve used it as a bass and it does well if you amplify and EQ it accordingly, but if I play it through my Twin, it’s a twangmeister of epic proportion.
I had a Fender Jaguar Baritone Custom, some years ago, with a 28” scale. I found it a bit lacking in string tension. I wouldn’t suggest any hard and fast rule, but the longer the scale length the higher the string tension and the instrument sounds better, at least to my ear.
— The artist formerly known as: Synchro
When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.
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Redfeather
Joined: Jul 30, 2016
Posts: 883
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Posted on Apr 21 2019 12:50 PM
It's only the length of string between the nut and bridge that determines the needed tension, though. What's going on at the headstock is irrelevant to that. The length of string between the post and nut is just a mechanical connection to transfer tuning tension from one point to another. Just like the length of string behind the bridge on a Jazzmaster running way back to the vibrato. Lengthening it doesn't alter the required tension between the nut and bridge at all.
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