Squid
Joined: Aug 22, 2010
Posts: 1018
Portland, Oregon with Insanitizers
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Posted on Feb 24 2019 02:22 PM
As illustrated by this video the Insanitizers surf guitar duo sounds like a full band. I control electronic percussion during songs. My right leg movements to trigger riffs are visible. In person it sounds even better of course. The song is an original ("Day in Tokyo") from our "Flying Guitars" album. My guitar is made from parts. Both Tom and I use bass guitar amps. I use Zoom G1Xon for all effects. I'm working on a couple of other videos from this performance near Portland, Oregon.
There was a lot of effort in programming the percussion in advance for each song. Likewise for songwriting, making the guitar and recording. I love this stuff. I use this percussion only for live performances, not for studio recordings.
In past incarnations the Insanitizers was a trio and a quartet, both with live drummer. Those were great fun, but stresses from family, finance, and travel led to treasured bandmates leaving. There is much less organizational work for a duo.
— Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com
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Squid
Joined: Aug 22, 2010
Posts: 1018
Portland, Oregon with Insanitizers
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Posted on Feb 27 2019 09:28 PM
Here's another original song "Dance Like a Robot" from the same gig. The sound is different because the pedal settings were different. The pedal settings reside in a pre-programmed "patch" that I select during the performance. I use about a dozen different patches with differing delays and differing types and amounts of reverb. They're all in the surf-Rautalanka range. You can hear quite a difference from the previous song. I hope to add a third video eventually, with a still different patch.
— Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com
Last edited: Feb 27, 2019 21:29:38
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Squid
Joined: Aug 22, 2010
Posts: 1018
Portland, Oregon with Insanitizers
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Posted on Apr 12 2019 10:59 PM
Here's the third of the three video recordings from our performance at the Vancouver Farmers Market, "Dragonfly."
— Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com
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Surfing_Sam_61
Joined: Jan 15, 2019
Posts: 1515
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Posted on Apr 13 2019 01:26 AM
Yeah Duo works ...I want to do solo myself with loopers and a Beat Buddy drum pedal (What drum pedal do you use Squid?) - The beat buddy sounds better with its own PA speakers with different size speakers - It sounds pretty lame through and guitar rig (at least that's what I found anyway.) In fact I'm building a multi-speaker PA with different amps to do all this - so will have a mix of speakers in two 7 foot tall cabinets)
Being it looks like I'm the only surfer in town here - I have to move forward and go solo I guess - My idea is to use guitar to bass pedals and the looper etc for a live backing track to solo over etc ….I'm going to have a fake drummer as well driven by the Beat Buddy for comedy - This is a total time killer and been kind of lazy working on all this but getting there.
I was told that solo guys have more opportunity here because most places only do well on the weekends and is seasonal as well. There is like 340 plus band moving through here in the summer but only work weekends essentially (There is that many live venues here.)
Most of the solo guys or Duos are usually accoutic and singer/song writter type stuff - no surf at all - so that could be my big failure point but going to try anyway
I like your songs and playing - I liked the Telstar cover you did as well, that sounded pretty righteous.
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Squid
Joined: Aug 22, 2010
Posts: 1018
Portland, Oregon with Insanitizers
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Posted on Apr 13 2019 12:16 PM
Hi, Sam, thanks for your nice post.
Yes, I'm using a Beat Buddy, triggering it with my right foot as I play guitar. I put the Beat Buddy output through the same amp and speaker I use for guitar--but my rig is not a guitar amp. I use a bass amp head and a wide-ranging speaker. My speaker is either a hemp-cone guitar neodymium guitar speaker or a neodymium Carvin PA speaker. I chose this guitar amp setup for its pristine twangy tone with reverbs and delays, but then I found it works out well for the Beat Buddy.
The Beat Buddy has both large advantages and large needs. It really sounds like a live drummer, and I've had compliments at gigs. Compared to live drummers I've performed with it is better than most. If you don't need a separate amp for it, it adds little space or weight. It keeps the beat perfectly. It keeps the setlist with the BPM for each song, with a light visible day or night. It shows up to gigs on time, doesn't have travel, financial or marriage problems, and doesn't try to pick up my platonic female friends. Those are the advantages.
The disadvantages are challenges that can be overcome with time, effort and inventiveness. First, it takes time and effort to set up each individual song. The more distinctive you want the percussion to be for a particular song, the longer and more complex the setup. Second, it takes dedicated practice to use the Beat Buddy as you play your instrument. Fills and other changes can be triggered at moments that cause confusion of the rhythm. Third, as you use the Beat Buddy it slides away from your foot, and you have to chase it. Fourth, you have to pick up your foot and place it on the Beat Buddy to press the pedal, then remove your foot. No problem for a couple of songs, but after an hour you may find your leg muscles fatigued. Fifth, as you say it doesn't sound good through ordinary guitar amps (and I have several). Sixth, there are continuing software updates to the Beat Buddy. As you can see from the video I have met these challenges (but there is always more that can and maybe should be done).
I use the Beat Buddy only for live performances and rehearsals, not for recordings on CDs. My CD recordings can be streamed (free) from Insanitizers.com website.
What city are you near, Sam?
Surfing_Sam_61 wrote:
Yeah Duo works ...I want to do solo myself with loopers and a Beat Buddy drum pedal (What drum pedal do you use Squid?)
— Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com
Last edited: Apr 13, 2019 12:20:53
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Surfing_Sam_61
Joined: Jan 15, 2019
Posts: 1515
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Posted on Apr 13 2019 01:06 PM
I live near Ocean City Maryland - There are 5 clubs right around my place that has solo players at times - many other clubs and venues all around here besides that. Lots of potential here, being most bands and solo guy's are all from out of town and have to travel 30 to 40 miles to even get here. So many only play like once a week etc.
I'm going to put my Beat Buddy on a pedal board I have and also mount a midi foot controller to it I have - you need a midi adapter to connect them. Much easier to control it that way.
I just scrapped my building a PA speakers - taking too long - just going to order a few systems like 12" and 15" speaker sets and amps etc - I have a van anyway so space is not a problem for me - each speaker weighs about 61 lbs. so that's no too bad and I have few small rack road cases already for all my rack amps and modeler anyway. I just really need the speaker cabs right now. Will have to burn some money - just tired on messing around.
I like playing different songs every set anyway, most bands you can't do that on the fly like I do anyway. So solo works for me that way, and like I said before there is more work for solo all week anyway,
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tahitijack
Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Posts: 693
San Clemente, CA
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Posted on Apr 13 2019 01:50 PM
Sam,
You nailed it. For all those looking for gigs, this is a path to take. Since seeing Paul and Gil years ago I have always thought that a surf music duo playing two acoustic guitars "unplugged" could find plenty of places. A local venue was looking for a Sunday afternoon instrumental band to play background blues, jazz etc a few weeks ago. As far as I know Alan and Mac are the only ones doing this in SoCal. Should be more.
— Happy Sunsets!
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Squid
Joined: Aug 22, 2010
Posts: 1018
Portland, Oregon with Insanitizers
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Posted on Apr 13 2019 09:27 PM
tahitijack wrote:
I have always thought that a surf music duo playing two acoustic guitars "unplugged" could find plenty of places.
Truly unplugged--with no amplification--surf guitar is drowned out by ordinary conversation. If you're in a small venue, add amplification and you have a very narrow range for volume and dynamics. Playing in background was no fun for my bandmates or me. The venue has to have enough size to allow louder-than-background volume. We have played at low volume, but when I'm playing low and I get requests to lower the volume...my only thought is ugh, this gig is bad.
— Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com
Last edited: Apr 13, 2019 21:28:54
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Squid
Joined: Aug 22, 2010
Posts: 1018
Portland, Oregon with Insanitizers
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Posted on Apr 13 2019 09:54 PM
Surfing_Sam_61 wrote: each speaker weighs about 61 lbs...
Much lighter is possible. My 400 watt RMS bass amp head weighs 4-1/2 pounds and each 12" neodymium speaker in cabinet weighs 15 pounds. It's an easy carry and with 2 guitars it fits in the car trunk.
— Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com
Last edited: Apr 13, 2019 21:57:38
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Surfing_Sam_61
Joined: Jan 15, 2019
Posts: 1515
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Posted on Apr 14 2019 05:58 PM
Squid wrote:
Surfing_Sam_61 wrote: each speaker weighs about 61 lbs...
Much lighter is possible. My 400 watt RMS bass amp head weighs 4-1/2 pounds and each 12" neodymium speaker in cabinet weighs 15 pounds. It's an easy carry and with 2 guitars it fits in the car trunk.
Yeah I always go overboard with buying stuff (Bigger is better) 
I just got two sets of PA type speakers with one with two 15" speakers each with tweeters and one set with two 12" speakers in each - might even get a 8" set down the road. I have a van so no problem.
Just started working on the drum part of the equation today.
I bought the proper amp (rated at 1500 wats)  so everybody should hear me - I probably won't play that loud though. Some of the DJ type PA system have insane outputs - Holy Cow 
Acoustic guitar doesn't work for me and my style - I play only electric and have acoustic pedal if needed (If ever) - To me it's not surf enough with out a solid body guitar I hand.
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Squid
Joined: Aug 22, 2010
Posts: 1018
Portland, Oregon with Insanitizers
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Posted on Apr 15 2019 09:11 PM
The "watts" on some DJ PA systems are not continuous RMS watts, but inflated by representing only peak momentary power handling at a high distortion level such as 10%. I just saw a review of a Pyle amp that claims 1000 Watts but the reviewer said it behaves like 60 Watts.
— Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com
Last edited: Apr 15, 2019 21:14:53
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Surfing_Sam_61
Joined: Jan 15, 2019
Posts: 1515
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Posted on Apr 15 2019 11:43 PM
That's probably a good thing in my case - because I crank the volume all the time >>>>>>>8^)<<<<<<<<
I have a old 1990's power amp rated much lower and just two 15's a it cranks so not too worried if its not loud enough. It did a test with just stereo speakers I had with the old 15's just mentioned all stacked together ( about four sets total and it totally cranked out the sound even with relatively low watts on those. I couldn't believe how loud it got, so it all adds up a bit with a stacked systems like that.
I have seen many use just 8 " speakers on stands and sounded pretty good for small gigs (more than likely my type of place anyway.) But I had a guitar amp that wasn't as loud as my stereo even so its a mixed result for me.
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cambeezy
Joined: Jun 26, 2007
Posts: 399
Cleveland, Ohio
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Posted on Apr 19 2019 02:58 PM
Mike (GuitarMuk here) and I are starting off as a duo with Beatbuddy. I’ve had the pedal for three years and love using it for personal practices at home.
Anticipating live shows, I’ve hunkered down and learned how to store a setlist on the BB, via the Beatbuddy Manager. Eureka! This is gonna be fun now. I'll really miss not working with a real drummer, but the Mrs said no more drums in the living room. I think we'll get by just fine.
Surfing_Sam_61 wrote:
I like playing different songs every set anyway, most bands you can't do that on the fly like I do anyway.
That's the cool thing about Beatbuddy. Once songs are stored to the pedal, you can move ups and down the setlist and pick out whatever just by tapping the secondary footswitch.
Both Mike and I have PAs that we'll be using to run the drum pedal. I hope to post a follow-up once we do a gig or two.
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Surfing_Sam_61
Joined: Jan 15, 2019
Posts: 1515
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Posted on Apr 19 2019 03:41 PM
I been too busy working on building my drum drummer/kit idea to fool with my Beat Buddy yet that will drive it with midi. Will start soon though. 
I found a page on Beat Buddy's site a while back I will post that has all the midi information for it when I get around to it on this thread here. You can connect midi foot controllers to add accents or vamps on the drums using the foot pedals on the foot controller board that control each drum or cymbal assigned to it etc (Even tempo etc)...Beat Buddy has a pedal already set up to do that should be out this year. It should be easier to use that the foot pedal and knobs on the actual Beat Buddy pedal.
Yeah I just got my to PA systems today so will fire it up soon to see how insanely loud I can be. My beat buddy will have its own PA and my Avid Rack Eleven will have its own as well. Should sound good.
I like the beat Buddy - I printed out the manual a while ago off a site online.
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Surfing_Sam_61
Joined: Jan 15, 2019
Posts: 1515
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Posted on May 31 2019 04:35 PM
Squid wrote:
The "watts" on some DJ PA systems are not continuous RMS watts, but inflated by representing only peak momentary power handling at a high distortion level such as 10%. I just saw a review of a Pyle amp that claims 1000 Watts but the reviewer said it behaves like 60 Watts.
I think your right Squid - I just fired up my new system today for the first time with only the Beat Buddy pedal (Stereo in). Yeah wide open on the pedal and amp is louder then real drums, but not that much louder, but just a little louder than acoustic drums etc. Either I need more power or a mixer with some gain for the pedal etc or just double up my PA system. Its almost there but I don't think the pedal output is all that great really. Sounds nice, I didn't mess with the different drum kits yet on the pedal, so maybe that will help or add a edge. I think I need a mixer with some gain on it between the amp and pedal though. The 15 inch speakers sounds the best for the drums (but wanted that for my guitar rack unit though.) I will probably need another Pair of 15 inch PA speakers I guess - I almost did that before anyway (live and learn).
To me the Beat Buddy output is too conservative (It has a headphone jack) so I think it either needs a gain pedal after it or a mixer with gain to give it some edge. Ready to burn more money 
OK I could be deaf - even the real drums don't sound that loud to me either >>>>>>  <<<<<<
Last edited: May 31, 2019 16:43:59
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cambeezy
Joined: Jun 26, 2007
Posts: 399
Cleveland, Ohio
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Posted on May 31 2019 09:32 PM
Surfing_Sam_61 wrote:
...so I think it either needs a gain pedal after it or a mixer with gain >to give it some edge.
I found the BB to be a little bland on higher frequencies, so I added a cheap Behringer eq700 equalizer pedal to bring out the hi-hat and cymbal crashes and add some snap to the snare sounds. A boost pedal also works for this purpose but mine is back on my pedal board.
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Squid
Joined: Aug 22, 2010
Posts: 1018
Portland, Oregon with Insanitizers
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Posted on May 31 2019 10:09 PM
cambeezy wrote:
I found the BB to be a little bland on higher frequencies, so I added a cheap Behringer eq700 equalizer pedal to bring out the hi-hat and cymbal crashes and add some snap to the snare sounds. A boost pedal also works for this purpose but mine is back on my pedal board.
There's no blandness when I put the BB through a PA amp and PA speakers that include tweeters, or through a bass amp head to a two-way crossover network and then on to a 12" hemp cone guitar speaker and a piezo tweeter. Without a cross-over network and tweeter the high end is missing.
— Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com
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cambeezy
Joined: Jun 26, 2007
Posts: 399
Cleveland, Ohio
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Posted on Jun 01 2019 08:13 AM
Squid wrote:
There's no blandness when I put the BB through a PA amp and PA speakers ...
Agreed. I'm running the BB into a Behringer PPA500BT PA for band practice and this needs no additional EQ.
I should have qualified my earlier comments regarding the equalizer pedal for boosting the BB's highs for personal practice and recording situations.
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Squid
Joined: Aug 22, 2010
Posts: 1018
Portland, Oregon with Insanitizers
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Posted on Jun 01 2019 10:23 AM
I prefer to put the BB through a PA system for three reasons besides that it sounds good that way. I hear my own guitar amp without the full power of the percussion. Other band members hear the percussion without the full power of my guitar amp.
Finally, using the PA brings more flexibility in selecting my guitar amp, I don't have to use an amp with a full range from deep bass to high treble because of the BB. Indeed, my only guitar amps with such a range use a cross-over network and tweeter I added. No unmodified guitar amp of mine has treble for cymbals or a proper snare, and only one has enough bass for a kick drum.
— Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com
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Surfing_Sam_61
Joined: Jan 15, 2019
Posts: 1515
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Posted on Jun 01 2019 01:39 PM
cambeezy wrote:
Surfing_Sam_61 wrote:
...so I think it either needs a gain pedal after it or a mixer with gain >to give it some edge.
I found the BB to be a little bland on higher frequencies, so I added a cheap Behringer eq700 equalizer pedal to bring out the hi-hat and cymbal crashes and add some snap to the snare sounds. A boost pedal also works for this purpose but mine is back on my pedal board.
Yeah I think I know what you mean, compared to real drums and cymbals lose a little bit of the dynamics etc. I have tweeters on the two speaker 15 inch PA Cabs I have and the cymbals could be a little better maybe if it was equalized a little. Its not band though for what it is.
Of course it all depends on the amp and speakers we use, they are all different much like guitar amps and rig set ups.
I was hoping it would be a turn key operation without much experimenting ...I have work to do 
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