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SurfGuitar101 Forums » Recording Corner »

Permalink How many takes to get it right?

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ArtS wrote:

So figure out if your perspiration or inspiration and go from there.

Mapping out a lead for me is where these 2 elements combine. I try to establish different stops and save notes and then practice improvising on a theme or series of themes between these points. Maybe it's some trem picking or something way the heck up the neck but I'll do it over and over until I'm sweating like a hog.

The great thing is, once I start to sweat, any numbness I may be experiencing in my pickin hand goes away. Then I'll take a break and polish the guitar neck so I can really slide around and if it gets too crazy, get out the talcum powder like I'm going bowling.

Da Vinci Flinglestein,
The quest for the Tone, the tone of the Quest

The Syndicate of Surf on YouTube

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So it's a bit of both for you. Yeah, I'm just not that polished or practiced a player anymore.

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I found my biggest problem was when my brain would start thinking about what I was doing, or worse, what I'm not doing.
Or at a point, think to myself, damn that sounds good, and then mess up the next few notes.
I'm not a young guy anymore and I find my muscles start getting tired and it can cause a mistake.
Several times I get all the way through a great track, and mess up the last few notes in anticipation of finally gettingg a clean effort.
I don't know how to edit this garageband app yet, so if it sounds good, it was a good take completely.

Last edited: Jul 28, 2017 22:45:57

Joelman wrote:

Well,, I had actually been listening to two lead takes at the same time!

That's a good known way of thickening your sound particularly with the bass, most video tutorials I've watched suggest dual tracking should be done with separately recorded takes. Although a friend of mine often creates a duplicate track, turns snap-to-the-grid off and slides one of the tracks a fraction of a second out of sync.

crumble wrote:

Joelman wrote:

Well,, I had actually been listening to two lead takes at the same time!

That's a good known way of thickening your sound particularly with the bass, most video tutorials I've watched suggest dual tracking should be done with separately recorded takes. Although a friend of mine often creates a duplicate track, turns snap-to-the-grid off and slides one of the tracks a fraction of a second out of sync.

Thanks for the tip.
This computer stuff is definitely different than tape.

Joelman wrote:

I found my biggest problem was when my brain would start thinking about what I was doing, or worse, what I'm not doing.
Or at a point, think to myself, damn that sounds good, and then mess up the next few notes.
I'm not a young guy anymore and I find my muscles start getting tired and it can cause a mistake.
Several times I get all the way through a great track, and mess up the last few notes in anticipation of finally gettingg a clean effort.
I don't know how to edit this garageband app yet, so if it sounds good, it was a good take completely.

Recording is a different animal from playing live. You'd be surprised that some of the hit songs we hear have been sliced and diced and sometimes by a gaggle of editors cutting each note taking a month of work after the artist has finished the tracks.

Is there latency on your DAW setup going in and coming out by the time you hear it? Are you hearing your guitar fast enough to be able to sync with the rest of the tracks? Not all DAWs are created equal and a latency issue can make for a frustrating experience and bad feelings about one's abilities.

Doing a solo top to bottom is not easy for most and even if you practice it, it's like surfing. You hang ten and coast or wipeout.

You fall off, you get back on again..and again.

Getting the parts to sit with the track and sound musical is the goal not how fast you can get done with the task.

And as you listen back you will see where you would like the note to hang or cut out at specific spots. So either you punch in that part again or you use editing tools to stretch or shorten the note. Or use a tuning plugin to get the part to be in tune. Welcome to the 21st century.

Doing recording by yourself, unless you have automation down, for punch in/out cues you need a second pair of hands to punch yourself in and out fixing all those notes that bother you. Enter your assistant.

It's not unusual to do the parts many times until you get it right.

As many as it takes actually if you want it done proper.

If you need inspiration watch La Bamba the movie where producer Bob Keane tells Richie to do the part over and over again until his brother wants to slap Keane.

Like anything, recording takes practice. Practice DOING IT. In short we all have to pay our dues.

Have to stick with it is all. Choose easier songs perhaps at the start.

But overall, no pain no gain.

And.. no shame if you don't get it the first dozen or so times.

Didn't it take Dick Dale about 50 takes to get Misirlou? Recording is a harsh mirror that reflects your playing in all it's honesty!

If you're making mistakes at different points in the song then just splice all the good bits together. This is pretty industry standard.
If you're making a mistake at the same place everytime then you need to practice it a bit more til it's more fluent. Possibly slow the track down if speed is an issue.

One tip I can offer is that the point of recording is to produce a track that represents something you want to hear. It's not a way to show how well you can play, that's what playing live is for. Don't stress about playing the whole track in one hit, do it in sections if need be. As long as it sounds like it was recorded in one hit then it's good to go. It's a representation of your songwriting skills not your playing skills.

http://thewaterboarders.bandcamp.com/

Last edited: May 10, 2018 09:28:06

crumble wrote:

If all else fails record multiple takes on separate tracks then pick the best track. If any mistakes then slice a piece out from one of the other takes and replace it. It's a less stressful way of punching in/out I guess.

This is the norm, I think. If you're recording something for public consumption, the final result matters more than your personal performance.

If I really need to get a part right and it's clearly not happening, I'll stop recording and practice, with a slow metronome if necessary. Once you have confidence that you can actually play it, it's easier to record. If that doesn't work, I'll work on something else, rhythm guitar or something, til I feel like having another go.

Stopping the pressure of recording and building your confidence is the way forward for me. You can end up just having a frustrating time otherwise.

http://thewaterboarders.bandcamp.com/

Lots of great comments here.

While I agree that you should definitely practice as much as possible before hitting the record button, there's no shame in taking the best parts of multiple tracks and combining them together. Just keep in mind that no matter what kind of song or music you are doing, recording is a "manufacturing" process which is different from playing live.

I also suggest the following:

  1. For timing issues....Record with the metronome on. Go back and play the track with it on also, but then play it back another time with the metronome OFF. Does it sound better? Worse? Not enough difference to worry about?

  2. To stop string noises, try taping the unused strings with masking or gaffers tape (remember, you are manufacturing music, so who cares what it may look like in studio). You can also put sponge material under the bridge or just behind the nut to help dampen things overall.

  3. Record a track of you practicing with the music and operate from the mindset that "this is just practice, so I don't care if it's perfect". Then play it back - is any of that useable? Is your playing looser and more relaxed than when you sit down and do the take for real? And speaking of sitting down...

  4. Is your body relaxed while playing? Are you sitting too long? Trying standing up and recording a take. (or vice versa).

  5. You're recording at home - Take breaks between recording tracks. Stretch. Take a walk. Pet the dog. Flip on the TV and watch something for a few minutes. Give your brain, your hands, and most importantly your ears a rest.

  6. Use what I call the "Next Day" test. Record your track then play it back. Feeling iffy about it either way? Let it sit until tomorrow and see how you feel about it. Might surprise you - what you were stressing out about today might actually sound awesome tomorrow. Conversely, it might suck beyond words also, but hey at least you're approaching it with a clearer mind.

  7. Don't get so wrapped up in perfection that you freeze when that record light goes on. Perfection is a state of mind. Try your best, it's all you can ever do.

Side note: Elvis reportedly recorded "Hound Dog" at least 31 times. He chose take # 28. No one really knows why, but it sounded "right" to Elvis.

Last edited: Feb 28, 2019 19:04:27

The best advice I was ever given, and the best advice I ever give is to get a metronome and play along with it. It will really help your timing and make you realise how off you can be. Setting it slightly slower and slightly faster is a good exercise as well.

The harshest reality of recording your own stuff is that the time you're usually recording it is when you've literally just written it and therefore least familiar with it and play it at your worst.

In the old days they would just get a session guitarist in to nail it in one or two takes (studio time is money).

I did read about one producer who preferred to record each string from the rhythm guitar individually and make up the chords from the six tracks. Guarantees tonal control over each string, and each string is in isolation. I've toyed with trying this, but I don't think I have enough life left!

http://thewaterboarders.bandcamp.com/

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