Jim Colby - bass
Lew Bobbit - drums
Art Svrjcek (Sver-check) - guitars

Known covertly as "Agent Octopus"

We sure would love to pick up a rhythm guitarist if anyone is interested in Annapolis/Balt/DC area. Only gig about 2-4 times a year. We write a lot of non 1-4-5 music that could use some harmonic notes/chords.

Surf.The most dangerous of genres...

Surfcat

MARCH OF THE DEAD SURFERS! (2024) - Agent Octopus
THE JOURNEY HOME - Free download (2025) - Agent Octopus (Single)

BANDCAMP - Agent Octopus
YOUTUBE - Agent Octopus Surf
BANDCAMP - Reverb Galaxy

Maybe it's my Ventures upbringing but I loved rhythm guitar as much or more than lead lines from the beginning - especially as those early Dolton records were produced with the lead guitar and bass panned hard to one side and the drums and the rhythm guitar to the other. I was the kid playing with the balance knob on the old turntable listening one side then another. It was an effective teaching tool for a nascent guitarist also.

By accident or design I've played as a guitar/bass/drums trio backing a female or male vocalist (ie me) but I freely admit that format has its limitations especially when the guitar breaks arrive.

By the same token I've seen a fair number of surf trios. They play to their strengths and as one poster above notes they can use the spaces between notes to their advantage. But when does sparse and tasty become plain old thin-sounding with too much dead air?

Obviously surf is an instrumental-only pursuit (95% of the time) which means the instruments had better grab and hold the audience's attention whether they are surf fans or otherwise.

Ventures fandom aside, rhythm guitar in surf combos is the secret weapon. The Swiss army knife. It can deliver percussive sounds along with the drums, it can play full-blooded chords, it can do arpeggios, it is the most effective means of dictating/delivering dynamics. It also allows the lead player to do 'Goldilocks' parts: not too little, not too much. I think it's very difficult for a lead player to resist the urge to fill the air with notes when it's only bass & drums underneath.

I always try to consider the audience's point of view vis-a-vis song structure. Without vocals there still should be a feeling of 'ok this a verse, this is a chorus, now we're resolving things' - traits inherent in almost all forms of music from classical to punk. The rhythm guitar is the 'tour guide' in song construction and helps the audience, consciously or otherwise, keep track of where we are in the song.

Fair play to those who choose trios and make it work but give me two guitars please.

El Zeb does...
Next month on the road with Sam and Dusty. Catch them when you can!

Cheers
Andy

www.LosVenturas.be

We (The Delstroyers) are a three piece. We do sometimes add additional guitars when recording, but everything is written with a single guitar in mind for when we play live. Some of my current favorites (Black Flamingos, King Pelican) are three pieces as well.

I believe that some of the early Man or Astro-Man? stuff was done as a three piece too.

Four String Fender for The Delstroyers & The Woodhavens

Last edited: Jan 31, 2019 11:06:10

The_Cholla wrote:

chillybilly wrote:

Ventures fandom aside, rhythm guitar in surf combos is the secret weapon. The Swiss army knife. It can deliver percussive sounds along with the drums, it can play full-blooded chords, it can do arpeggios, it is the most effective means of dictating/delivering dynamics. It also allows the lead player to do 'Goldilocks' parts: not too little, not too much. I think it's very difficult for a lead player to resist the urge to fill the air with notes when it's only bass & drums underneath.

I like this view of rhythm guitar a lot, I will forward it to our rhythm guitarist he will like it Personally I have hard time to compose songs with lead guitar only, I always feel like some punch is missing. But that's personal taste, and I enjoy three-piece bands a lot too. Especially when they put additional tracks on recordings, even if they won't be played live (the additional energy of live performance compensating for the "missing" guitar)

In my experience to find this kind of rhythm guitar player is harder than a lead guitar(

Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine

https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki

Lost Diver

https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin

chillybilly wrote:

Maybe it's my Ventures upbringing but I loved rhythm guitar as much or more than lead lines from the beginning - especially as those early Dolton records were produced with the lead guitar and bass panned hard to one side and the drums and the rhythm guitar to the other. I was the kid playing with the balance knob on the old turntable listening one side then another. It was an effective teaching tool for a nascent guitarist also.

By accident or design I've played as a guitar/bass/drums trio backing a female or male vocalist (ie me) but I freely admit that format has its limitations especially when the guitar breaks arrive.

By the same token I've seen a fair number of surf trios. They play to their strengths and as one poster above notes they can use the spaces between notes to their advantage. But when does sparse and tasty become plain old thin-sounding with too much dead air?

Obviously surf is an instrumental-only pursuit (95% of the time) which means the instruments had better grab and hold the audience's attention whether they are surf fans or otherwise.

Ventures fandom aside, rhythm guitar in surf combos is the secret weapon. The Swiss army knife. It can deliver percussive sounds along with the drums, it can play full-blooded chords, it can do arpeggios, it is the most effective means of dictating/delivering dynamics. It also allows the lead player to do 'Goldilocks' parts: not too little, not too much. I think it's very difficult for a lead player to resist the urge to fill the air with notes when it's only bass & drums underneath.

I always try to consider the audience's point of view vis-a-vis song structure. Without vocals there still should be a feeling of 'ok this a verse, this is a chorus, now we're resolving things' - traits inherent in almost all forms of music from classical to punk. The rhythm guitar is the 'tour guide' in song construction and helps the audience, consciously or otherwise, keep track of where we are in the song.

Fair play to those who choose trios and make it work but give me two guitars please.

You make some good points. If I could coax Don Wilson or Bruce Welch out of retirement . . .

A good rhythm guitarist is a true asset, but they are not so easy to find. To play rhythm well, you have to work at least as hard as the lead player. Ivan Pongracic Sr. is a great rhythm player, in the mold of Bruce Welch. Unfortunately, there are a lot of rhythm players whom are not so disciplined or skilled and they can increase one’s workload.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

SamDBL wrote:

I am three songs into the formation of my new band. And from the outset, I’ve always been drawn to the trio format. It’s stripped down, to a point. But that was kind of my goal. Dick dale and link Wray being two of my biggest inspirations. The problem is, when I record the tuff, I can’t help but layer guitar parts for a more lush arrangement. It makes it very hard to pull off live. I may decide to add another member if it gets too stressful and I’m basically unable to move on stage due to playing complicated riffs in attempt to cover two parts. However, a lot of the recordings tend to have acoustic rhythm, like the shadows. I’d love to have an acoustic player, live. Or even a keys or horn guy. Just two electric player has never excited me. In my of the various bands I’ve been in.

I’ve always thought that an acoustic rhythm player sounded good behind and electric lead.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

The trend among contemporary surf bands (not traditional revivalist groups) is to take the sonics of bands from the early '60s and play faster while adding too many notes. Much of the time this is a detriment to melody. Some of the current bands play so much that they sound like shred guitar bands with surf aesthetics. The trio format can be an antidote for that tendency. Even more than an open economical approach to guitar, imaginative bass playing determines the success of the format in my experience.

The other more elusive aspect of the trio is practicality. Most everyone here probably knows how difficult it is to get a functioning band together. Coordinating the schedules of three people is difficult enough let alone four or five. I've been in large bands that although artistically successful, only practiced with everyone in the room at once half the time. Trios are just easier to manage in that respect.

Then there is the interpersonal side if things. Bands are composed of often divergent personalities (there is almost always one guy who is essential but certifiably insane). It's a miracle some bands ever make it out of the garage with everyone still talking to each other. Infact I would say that trio, four piece or more, the only thing that really matters is that everyone involved clicks on a personal level. When personalities are in harmony, making and listening to the music is pure joy. Often it's more important to retain that harmony than it is to have a second guitar player.

The Vicissitones
Diesel Marine
The Rasputones

ElectricLimnology wrote:

The trend among contemporary surf bands (not traditional revivalist groups) is to take the sonics of bands from the early '60s and play faster while adding too many notes. Much of the time this is a detriment to melody. Some of the current bands play so much that they sound like shred guitar bands with surf aesthetics. The trio format can be an antidote for that tendency. Even more than an open economical approach to guitar, imaginative bass playing determines the success of the format in my experience.

The other more elusive aspect of the trio is practicality. Most everyone here probably knows how difficult it is to get a functioning band together. Coordinating the schedules of three people is difficult enough let alone four or five. I've been in large bands that although artistically successful, only practiced with everyone in the room at once half the time. Trios are just easier to manage in that respect.

Then there is the interpersonal side if things. Bands are composed of often divergent personalities (there is almost always one guy who is essential but certifiably insane). It's a miracle some bands ever make it out of the garage with everyone still talking to each other. Infact I would say that trio, four piece or more, the only thing that really matters is that everyone involved clicks on a personal level. When personalities are in harmony, making and listening to the music is pure joy. Often it's more important to retain that harmony than it is to have a second guitar player.

I couldn’t agree more about the approach of some contemporary Surf bands. A lot of the original stuff came across fairly mellow. It may have been filled with treble and used a lot of reverb, but the playing was laid back on many tunes. It was music I’d describe as quality over impact. It was bright and twangy, but it laid nicely upon the senses. Everyone remembers Miserlou, but Summer Surf was probably closer to the centerline. Surf was used in movies and TV shows. It earned your attention, but didn’t overwhelm.

I’m not just picking on Surf here. The same thing has happened in Rockabilly. Some of the newer practitioners are caricatures of original Rockabilly. Yes, Gene Vincent was a rebel, but you could play Eddie Cochran in front of your parents. Unfortunately, some of the neo Rockabilly guys seem obsessed with taking it to the next level and risk losing the solu of the music.

Surf was from a much different time. It was before the Beatles, and before much of the social revolution of the ‘60s. It was fun music, played for and played by, kids that wanted to have fun. I was fairly young, then, but man I perked up when a Surf tune came on the radio.

I’ll address the scheduling risk factors of a larger band in answer to Sam’s post, but the interpersonal aspect is huge. The more people you put into a situation, the more power struggles there will be.

Surfing_Sam_61 wrote:

Yeah I think a four piece is a pain too. so hard to get everyone there the same time Its almost baby sitting in a way.

The chances of something going wrong increases at the square of the number of elements. If you have only one person in a band, you practice whenever you want. If there are two members, there is 4x the risk of a scheduling conflict, if there are three members, there is 9x the potential for a scheduling conflict, with four members, 16x the potential. The band I’m in has had 3-5 members through the years and has gone through more drummers than Spinal Tap, but we have a great one now. Whenever we’ve gone up to four members, things became a lot tougher.

Surfing_Sam_61 wrote:

How about a Boss Looper pedal - would that help?....some allow multiple parts (If you can remember how to work them)

I’ve thought along similar lines. There’s a virtually unused RC-3 on my board, I just need to learn how it works.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Last edited: Feb 01, 2019 18:43:23