The_Sea_Gees
Joined: Mar 03, 2018
Posts: 19
Columbus Ohio
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Posted on Mar 04 2018 10:57 PM
I want to achieve that nice clear clunky Astronauts sound but these stock speakers seem a little "farty?". Do I need higher than the stock 50 watt rated speakers? The stock speakers are 50 watt 8ohm ceramics. What are the main differences between a alnico and ceramic speaker tone wise? Also the speaker recommendations should costwise be under the price of one of these at their original retail :p I don't plan on sticking in some expensive JBL speakers into a solid state fender. Just something cheap that is better than the stock ones. When money is better I'll get the dual showman, ha ha.
Also I was looking at upgrading the weak weak weak stock short reverb tank with a long type two spring 4EB3C1B or a long type three spring 9EB3C1B. What are the attributes of a two spring vs a three spring tank? I know a onboard reverb is no match for a 63'or surfy bear etc but for simple budget gigging purposes initially this amp needs a little more verb and tanks are only 30 bucks.
I'm just getting together a group of guys to start playing under the name "The Sea Gees" and this is what I've got to deal with while also not really making enough money to buy decent gear for the time being. Also this is my first thread I have started on here, so hello!
— Guitarist of The Sea Gees! A group I'm working on putting together, more to come.
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Mar 04 2018 11:06 PM
You are better off getting a reverb pedal than upgrading the onboard reverb or putting in a new speaker.
The Surfybear is a build it yourself pedal that will only set you back like $60 and will sound as close to a tank as anything you will buy. By a mile, actually.
The Catalinbread Topanga doesn't suck, not great. But kind of the second best option after the Surfybear or even something like the discontinued Boss FRV-1.
Upgrading speakers, I couldn't recommend paying money to do a half-assed upgrade. Find somebody that will give you free speakers if you want to upgrade. Probably anything is better than the stock speakers and people are ripping speakers out of their amps all of the time and just sit on them. You aren't going to get anything great, but putting the $$ for a good speaker in a Frontman is better spent elsewhere.
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The_Sea_Gees
Joined: Mar 03, 2018
Posts: 19
Columbus Ohio
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Posted on Mar 04 2018 11:17 PM
HA! Jake it looks like I can always count on you to be the most direct and realistic. (I've lurked the forum here for a few years.) I can't say I didn't expect this response but if I choose to continue to be a idiot gear wise at least I will have a chance to do it right. I upgraded a cheap kustom amp one time with one of the jensen mod speakers and to my ears it was much nicer than the stock one, not sure if those would be the optimum choice for this amp but I remember them being very cheap.
— Guitarist of The Sea Gees! A group I'm working on putting together, more to come.
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Mar 04 2018 11:24 PM
And do get new speakers! Just don't pay for them. Lots of speakers to go around that people don't really even care about getting $$$ for.
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Redfeather
Joined: Jul 30, 2016
Posts: 896
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Posted on Mar 04 2018 11:24 PM
I have the same amp and I second what JD said. Get a Surfybear kit and don't worry about the rest.
I upgraded the onboard tank in mine and while it did increase the reverb dramatically, it's not really the surf music type of reverb. You just need the Surfybear. When you're running a real reverb tank through the front of an amp, it's going to sound like surf music no matter what. The subtleties of the speakers don't matter that much.
Try the Surfybear through it and if you aren't happy with the sound, then worry about the next step. But you'll probably be happy. Reverb fixes everything.
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The_Sea_Gees
Joined: Mar 03, 2018
Posts: 19
Columbus Ohio
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Posted on Mar 04 2018 11:46 PM
As far as using a standalone unit, has anyone used the Lafayette Echo Verb or the Fender FR-1000? I can't solder or at least haven't tried yet so that rules out the incredibly budget friendly kit version surfy bear. I already owned the spring king and it wasn't that incredibly much better than amp reverb IMO. I'm eventually going to get a tube unit but for gigging in possibly seedy places it would be nice to have something less fragile like the above mentioned SS units. My thinking is the good reverb pedals, topanga etc are near 200 while I could get a Lafayette Echo Verb or FR-1000 for 300 on a good day.(I like making crashes.) Sort of why I wanted a better tank on my amp rather than going the pedal route.
Has anyone used a pedal reverb simultaneously with onboard reverb to any degree of success? Might be able to get the luscious tone from a pedal with the authentic spring sound on my amp?
This all brings to mind how all the spending on these sort of things just keep you farther away from having what you really want (in this case a 63 Reverb). Maybe I've answered my own question just now? I think a problem in our age is many folks want instant gratification without the work ethic to achieve their goals. I myself it seems am guilty of this.
All in all, it's nice to know what options there are.
— Guitarist of The Sea Gees! A group I'm working on putting together, more to come.
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Redfeather
Joined: Jul 30, 2016
Posts: 896
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Posted on Mar 05 2018 01:44 AM
Really man, there's no substitute for a Fender reverb tank or its near identical Surfybear recreation. If you're going to be a real surf band you need to get one. Buy a soldering iron and get to it! No pedal is going to get you the sound. And hey, the Surfybear is pretty much the cheapest thing out there anyway.
After I posted last I put together these demos of my Frontman for you. All the guitars are going through my '63 reissue tank into it. I wanted to test my assertion that it would sound plenty surfy in stock form with the tank in front and I think I validated that assertion. What do you think?
Oh, and regarding your question about stacking a reverb pedal on the amp's onboard reverb, the answer is NO! It's funny how reverb works but I've found that even the heavy and somewhat drippy reverbs on my Carvin amps are damn near undetectable when there's already a reverb going into the amp. Whether the knob's at 1 or 10, all I hear is the tank or pedal in front.
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The_Sea_Gees
Joined: Mar 03, 2018
Posts: 19
Columbus Ohio
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Posted on Mar 05 2018 02:39 AM
I can live with a cheap amp but there's no true substitute for the 63 that's for sure. Nice playing btw. I'm not convinced however that other reverb units don't sound good in their own way although many of them undoubtedly do NOT have redeeming qualities. I have a soft spot for the early Fender solid state amps like the Scorpio (the zodiac series) etc and keep finding myself considering the FR-1000. There's just not a lot being said about it so while it's cheaper than a 63 it's also a potential risk.
As far as the speakers go, I want to hear more bottom out of this amp. More thump when doing rhythms. For a beater gigging amp I think it would be worth the pursuit as long as the speakers are cheap. Your recordings are incredibly convincing to the fact that you can't easily tell it's not a tube amp. For a clean palette on putting effects into it it's great. It's (tone) all so subjective and half of it is us geeking out over products anyway. I remember reading a post here of people trying to determine what guitar was playing lead on certain songs and even the person who played it couldn't remember or had remembered wrong initially.  I'm sure I'm guilty of hearing a P90 and thinking it was a Jazzy pickup or something, we're just biased towards Fender I guess. We could easily call surf music Fender music but then a lot of music has been played on Fenders! 
Would the Jensen Mod 50w be a worth while upgrade as far as what I'm looking for?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jensen-Mod-12-50-12-guitar-speaker-50-watts-8-Ohm/391937355498?epid=1800130655&hash=item5b41496eea:g:TPUAAOSwyi9aIKjV
Says it has "low end focus".. Might be a contender.
— Guitarist of The Sea Gees! A group I'm working on putting together, more to come.
Last edited: Mar 05, 2018 02:44:43
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Redfeather
Joined: Jul 30, 2016
Posts: 896
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Posted on Mar 05 2018 03:59 AM
Yeah, this amp has a super weanie EQ section, for sure. No bass. However, I don't think speakers are going to make enough of a difference there to justify their cost. Instead, I suggest you just put an EQ pedal in front of it. Even if you don't already have one, it's a good purchase to make and is better than sinking money into the amp. I only recently discovered the power of EQ pedals and, having just experimented with one on my Frontman, I can say that it works! It cranks the bass right up, no sweat. Give it a shot!
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The_Sea_Gees
Joined: Mar 03, 2018
Posts: 19
Columbus Ohio
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Posted on Mar 05 2018 04:19 AM
Thanks for the tip, a buddy of mine has one. I'll see if I can borrow it. Maybe one of those food named Dano pedals are a EQ and that'll work? Jewish Rye Bread or was it the Meatloaf? :-] ha ha
— Guitarist of The Sea Gees! A group I'm working on putting together, more to come.
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Redfeather
Joined: Jul 30, 2016
Posts: 896
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Posted on Mar 05 2018 01:07 PM
I would recommend one that also has an overall volume slider. Like the Boss GE-7. Somewhere I read about inserting one of these into the effects loop and using that volume control as a way to temper the crazy volume knob on the 212R that's as touchy as an angry pitbull. And if you have the footswitch control for the effects loop you then you can toggle it on/off as a volume and/or EQ boost during live performance if you want.
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The_Sea_Gees
Joined: Mar 03, 2018
Posts: 19
Columbus Ohio
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Posted on Mar 05 2018 04:34 PM
I used to play guitar through a seventies 1x15 Hohner BASS combo that was plenty loud and it had the right sound I want. Throw a reverb tank on top, BAM! It even had mock blackface cosmetics. As a guitar player who doubles as a bass player I'm addicted to a good thump. I used to run a seventies Kustom 4 channel into it for reverb, that thing had a huge tank. Crazy set up but I'm always trying things out on craigslist. I wonder if the baffle in the frontman would support one fifteen? I'm guessing not but I'll have to measure. Otherwise I'm on the lookout for a eq to try out at the very least.
— Guitarist of The Sea Gees! A group I'm working on putting together, more to come.
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