surferjoemusic wrote:

Good mixing of the recording --> NOTHING in the Astronauts records has been done live, there is a good studio technician to do a proper mix.

I must disagree, Lorenzo. Many of their tracks are very lo-fi, recorded under lo-fi conditions. As I wrote in this thread,

Though many of the Astronauts' recordings were indeed done in the amazing RCA studios and sound immaculate, some of their most renowned songs were actually recorded under pretty lo-fi conditions: on September 19th and 20th, 1963, in Club Baja in Denver, CO, the Astronauts recorded "Surf Party," "The Pier", "Surfs You Right", "Firewater," "Surf Softly and Carry a Big Board," "Let's Surf Again," "Surfer Girl," and "My Little Beach Bunny". I seem to remember reading somewhere that it was done off-hours, while the club was empty, and there was a simple portable recording machine used to capture these tracks. And when you take a closer listen to them, they certainly don't sound nearly as clean and big as "Baja" or "Hot Doggin'" or any of the tracks on "Surfin' With the Astronauts". (Incidentally, Club Baja is also where the live "Everything is A-OK" was recorded, this time with the full crowd in tow!)

I'm quite sure all of those songs were recorded 'live', with the entire band playing at the same time, and probably at most the recorder was a two-track, possibly even a simple one-track.

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IvanP wrote:

surferjoemusic wrote:

Good mixing of the recording --> NOTHING in the Astronauts records has been done live, there is a good studio technician to do a proper mix.

I must disagree, Lorenzo. Many of their tracks are very lo-fi, recorded under lo-fi conditions. As I wrote in this thread,

Though many of the Astronauts' recordings were indeed done in the amazing RCA studios and sound immaculate, some of their most renowned songs were actually recorded under pretty lo-fi conditions: on September 19th and 20th, 1963, in Club Baja in Denver, CO, the Astronauts recorded "Surf Party," "The Pier", "Surfs You Right", "Firewater," "Surf Softly and Carry a Big Board," "Let's Surf Again," "Surfer Girl," and "My Little Beach Bunny". I seem to remember reading somewhere that it was done off-hours, while the club was empty, and there was a simple portable recording machine used to capture these tracks. And when you take a closer listen to them, they certainly don't sound nearly as clean and big as "Baja" or "Hot Doggin'" or any of the tracks on "Surfin' With the Astronauts". (Incidentally, Club Baja is also where the live "Everything is A-OK" was recorded, this time with the full crowd in tow!)

I'm quite sure all of those songs were recorded 'live', with the entire band playing at the same time, and probably at most the recorder was a two-track, possibly even a simple one-track.

the most low-fi the recording is, the more trebly and drippy it sounds. it just comes out a bit dirty, but i think most of the stuff was well processed in studio at RCA. bet everything could be

Lorenzo "Surfer Joe" Valdambrini
(www.surfmusic.net)

surferjoemusic wrote:

IvanP wrote:

surferjoemusic wrote:

Good mixing of the recording --> NOTHING in the Astronauts records has been done live, there is a good studio technician to do a proper mix.

I must disagree, Lorenzo. Many of their tracks are very lo-fi, recorded under lo-fi conditions. As I wrote in this thread,

Though many of the Astronauts' recordings were indeed done in the amazing RCA studios and sound immaculate, some of their most renowned songs were actually recorded under pretty lo-fi conditions: on September 19th and 20th, 1963, in Club Baja in Denver, CO, the Astronauts recorded "Surf Party," "The Pier", "Surfs You Right", "Firewater," "Surf Softly and Carry a Big Board," "Let's Surf Again," "Surfer Girl," and "My Little Beach Bunny". I seem to remember reading somewhere that it was done off-hours, while the club was empty, and there was a simple portable recording machine used to capture these tracks. And when you take a closer listen to them, they certainly don't sound nearly as clean and big as "Baja" or "Hot Doggin'" or any of the tracks on "Surfin' With the Astronauts". (Incidentally, Club Baja is also where the live "Everything is A-OK" was recorded, this time with the full crowd in tow!)

I'm quite sure all of those songs were recorded 'live', with the entire band playing at the same time, and probably at most the recorder was a two-track, possibly even a simple one-track.

the most low-fi the recording is, the more trebly and drippy it sounds. it just comes out a bit dirty, but i think most of the stuff was well processed in studio at RCA. bet everything could be

Ivan by the way when I say it's not done live, I meant exactly what I said. Not that it has not been recorded live, but that it has been properly processed in studio before being released.

Lorenzo "Surfer Joe" Valdambrini
(www.surfmusic.net)

ELZEB wrote:

surferjoemusic wrote:

how can you be so sure?

Friends in high places.

Government?

Lorenzo "Surfer Joe" Valdambrini
(www.surfmusic.net)

stratdancer wrote:

I did this video as a demonstration of surf drip that I have come up with over the years. I am in no way as experienced as the great players that have previously commented but I love my surf drip and this is how I do it.

To set the stage, Surfy Bear Reverb with MOD pan into a Quilter Pro Block 200 at low volume about where Lorenzo sets his. I also use the PB200 as a preamp into my Showman when I want more volume but not insane volume that it takes to get the tone of Showman a high volume, (beside the point). JBL D130 cab at low volume just for demonstration. I had a Twin until recently and with this technique produced just as much drip. It's mainly the tank and the right boost pedals.

Here's the video. I sound like a dork but that's a different topic :).

great work.
having witnessed the difference your boost makes, I wonder how much a heavier attack might yield somewhat close to the same result.

surferjoemusic wrote:

• jazzmaster on lead (no reverb, heavy distortion)

I'm glad Lorenzo noted this. When critically listening to first-wave surf recordings, it's often seemed to me that many lead guitar parts, including those of The Astronauts, seemed absent of reverb. But I just assumed I was mishearing because ... SURF! REVERB! So, perhaps I'm not totally crazy? I'm going to assume Lorenzo is onto something, here, because his recent Astronauts tribute project with The Kilaueas sounded pretty darned accurate!

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Last edited: Dec 12, 2017 14:17:36

josheboy wrote:

LordWellfleet wrote:

I'm going to assume Lorenzo is onto something, here, because his recent Astronauts tribute project with The Kilaueas sounded pretty darned accurate

It certainly is accurate. The whole album sounds excellent, but Lorenzo’s tracks in particular absolutely nail that Astronauts drip sound. While there are some super drippy and super wonderful reverb drenched releases in the modern era, I can think of no other band that gets closer to that Astronauts drip than Lorenzo has.

Thankfully, he freely shares his insights and expertise! Cheers Lorenzo!

thanks Josh, but i could not get paid for insights and expertise it’s always fun to me to share.
anyway i did my version of this sound based on countless hours of listening trying to catch the tricks, including where the accents are in the songs, both for guitars and drums.
but all in all i think we are all trying to understand something that happened absolutely by chance i think that everything has come out naturally and probably even unwanted - including the dick dale sound. it just happened to be so with a particular guitar and particular equipment, and they happened to like it. i am sure the Astronauts did not spend hours to create the Astronauts sound, they just plugged their guitars and play.

Lorenzo "Surfer Joe" Valdambrini
(www.surfmusic.net)

djangodeadman wrote:

but mostly I learned from all of you that the player is more important to tone than the amplifier.

True, but also a few beers will help. Yesterday I sounded just like Lorenzo! (I know, I know, I should have hit the record button... )

One thing that is often overlooked when chasing sounds is the effect the recording studio and recording gear has on the sound. It's been posted before, but studying the photo of the Astronauts recording at RCA reveals quit a bit.
Firstly, they are all playing live together, most likely straight to 2 track, possibly 3 track, but the convention at the time was to record live. The room is huge, with wood floors, and acoustic absorbtion panels around the room. Notice the drums are behind baffles with all the amps facing away from the drums. The drummer is wearing headphones so he can hear the amps (actually a pretty advanced technique for the time). The big room absolutely affects the sound and can account for the delay some might be hearing on the records. The microphones are also a huge factor. They all seem to be RCA 77's, which are ribbon mics. Ribbon mics really roll off and round out the high end, so the guitars might be set much more trebely than they sound. Also, rca 77's have selectable pickup patterns - you can choose between cardioid, omni, or figure 8. Set on omni or figure 8, they would pick up quite a bit of the room thus introducing a bit of delay to the sound. It's a little hard to make out, but the drums also seem to be mic'd by a 77, and I'm guessing judging by the recordings that there's no bass drum mic. The bands gear is so simple, blonde amps, offsets, and tanks, nothing else, no boosts, no pedals, no nonsense!
In the control room photo you see Chet Atkins with engineer Bill Porter, but the photo is from 1963, so it would be the same desk the Astronauts used. Notice how minimal the console is, very few channels and inputs, and very primitive minimal eq. It's also tube driven which really affects the sound, and adds a fair bit of compression. They may have also added some studio reverb chamber to the guitars as well. All in all though it's a very minimal and simple setup and approach, so you'd think it shouldn't be too difficult to reproduce?

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surferjoemusic wrote:

very good comments and analysis. thanks for the info. i think the same in facts as i have written. we don’t know exactly the kind of studio work that has been done there to create that sound impact.

We do kind of know though. In 1963 the only things that could be used to process sound, are compression - and that would more than likely be a Fairchild, a Gates Sta-level, or a Teletronix, all tube units, reverb from an actual chamber, or delay from tape, and very minimal eq, and that would have to have been a Pultec since that was about all that was available at the time.

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Last edited: Dec 14, 2017 09:04:34