With all the 15" speaker talk, I thought we might need a place to talk about everyone's favorite 15" speaker, the JBL D130F Maybe not everyone's favorite, but a common one, and thee speaker in the day.

Anyway, I found these two today on Craigslist. Original cones, seemingly good condition. The one on the right has a small 1/4" repair that looks well done. I hooked them both up outside a cabinet, and both sounded excellent, considering. I'll stick them in a cabinet and give them more of a test later.

What should I look for, or other prospective buyers look for when buying speakers that are 40-50 years old? I thought I knew what to look at, until I arrived at the dudes house, and I stood there and stared at them like a moron.

"You can't tell where you're going if you don't know where you've been"

Sonichris wrote:

What should I look for, or other prospective buyers look for when buying speakers that are 40-50 years old?

With anything 2nd-hand you take your chances, but:

Measure the coil (across the speakers terminals)with your ohmmeter to ensure that there is the ballpark DC resistance on the coil. (It will measure slightly below the stated impedance, (so an 8R speaker may measure 5 to 6 R. etc That is fine. If there is no reading, the coil is open and will have to be replaced.

The other thing to check is whether there is any voice coil rub anaginst the magnet pole piece, which you can do by slowly, carefully and gently pushing the cone in and out (but don't push/press on the dome in the centre). The cone should move freely. If the coil is rubbing you will feel (and hear) the scraping.

The other thing to check (obviously) is for visible damage/tears to the cone and/or spider.

He who dies with the most tubes... wins

Surf Daddies

Great info!
As it turns out, the one on the right is no good. Scraping sounds abound. When playing thru it, it has a bad resonating ring on sustained notes. Is that the voice coil rubbing?

Ive read that re-coned JBL's don't sound like they did originally? Is that true?

"You can't tell where you're going if you don't know where you've been"

Depends who does the re-cone work and whether they are using 'original' spec materials (cone, spider, etc)

I have one original cone D-130 left, which resides proudly in my tone ring cab. It really does sound amazing, and I agree that reconed D-130's from the past just don't have the same mojo. (Most of the old factory kits used E-series parts). Does anyone have any experience with the kits currently being offered that claim to be authentic repro's of the orig cones?

Ooooh sorry Chris,

Yep, and yep.

Here's what the JBL service department told me about 20 years back when we first got into the blonde cabinet and amp deal:

I bought a 2-15 Showman cabinet knowing that it had 2 blown D-130's in it. I called Northwest Speaker here in Atlanta and was told that they could re-cone the speakers "good as new" with really accurate aftermarket parts. Not too sure of that, I called JBL. I was told that they could not quote me on the repairs over the phone and I'd have to ship the two bad speakers to LA and they would check 'em out and then give me a quote. So I did.

About a week or so later I get a call from JBL. My two original D-130's cannot be repaired without modifying the speaker frames and magnet assemblies as the original parts were NLA, and hadn't been for years. Now, for the paltry sum of $250 per speaker, they would de-mag the magnets, disassemble my speakers, machine the coil gap from .056" to .083" clean up the mess re-mag the magnets, and re-cone them with E-series (as in E-130) parts, box 'em up and ship 'em back, oh and I'd get to pay the freight........

About two seconds later, I responded that I thought $500 to re-cone two speakers, which had failed in service due to a faulty original design, and that they knowingly had discontinued stocking parts to repair the original design was extortion. On a roll, I continued on that if they had any integrity, they would just chuck them back in my original boxes and and return them to me pre-paid. "I'd use them for boat anchors." So....

They shipped them back and both are still in the boxes, in the basement where they remain untouched.

Am I still pissed? Nah. Later on, I actually had two other ones re-coned with the "super duper better than stock" aftermarket parts by Northwest Speaker. Like Matt sez, they just don't quite have it. I don't think I've ever played a show with that cabinet. Woody likes it for rhythm guitar.

That's my story and I'm stickin' with it. Oh, and I think there are at least five dead 12 and 15 inch JBL's down there in the Boatwerx. (Dead EV's, zero).

Cheers!

ed

Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?

I lucked out on cl in Cook Co.,IL back in ‘15 finding a high end audio fanatic selling a pair of D130s (not Fs) for $150 ($75 ea.), original cones. One cone has some small repairs so it’s not visibly ‘perfect’ but both sound just great where I installed them in a huge drip edge Bassman cab I also picked up in Chicago that year. The rig I put together with a SF Twin Reverb Head is so hifi and loud it’s almost audiophile. I played recorded music through it for most of the year, when I wasn’t blasting surf guitar on it. Also works great for bass guitar and Fender Bass VI. To my ear the D130 is a unimpeachable.

Squink Out!

Last edited: Oct 20, 2017 00:57:12

Didn’t Ran above share the opinion of the speaker designer himself that the surround doesn’t much affect the performance of the speaker but is just more UV proof than the goop on the earlier model?

Squink Out!

Sonichris wrote:

Great links! The weber re-cone parts list is very interesting! One thing they mention on the JBL cone is a cloth surround, which I have read is not the same as the paper surround with the black rubbery goop used by JBL. The cloth is a later E type surround, or so I've read.

Indeed. However, I know from past ordering experience that they don't always have the complete list of available parts on their re-cone parts page (because there are so many different variations. Email Brian to see if they have the D-series 130F cones. He can amend their re-cone parts page to provide extra links for ordering specific parts that aren't there.Their Californa 15s have a paper surround IIRC, so they must stock the cones.

He who dies with the most tubes... wins

Surf Daddies

Last edited: Oct 20, 2017 18:28:00

Awesome. Have fun. I suggest you get a double of everything in case the beginning attempt doesn't work out. 's what I did 1st time around. Learning to re-cone speakers is a really practical skill and immensely satisfying. Its not hard once you get the gist of it.

A tip for getting the coil evenly-spaced round the pole piece gap is to make a shim out of a piece of typewriter paper cut into a long strip that can go several times around the circumference of the pole piece gap (like in that 'Uncle Doug' video). The gap in these vintage speakers is somewhat narrower than more modern versions, which is what gives these speakers their efficiency, so its important to get the gap as even as you can for a good re-cone, as there isn't much room for error. The other thing is don't over-goop when you epoxy the spider to the coil. You only want a thin even bead of glue right at the perimeter of the hole in the spider to ensure the spider retains maximum flex. (This takes a patient and steady hand, so ensure you have something at the right height to rest your elbow on)

Also, when you cut the old cone and spider out, cut around the outer perimeter of the cone and the inner perimeter of the cone (where it joins onto the voice coil) to remove the bulk of the cone first. Then you will see the spider better. Then cut around the edge of the spider near the outer perimeter with a sharp xacto blade. Don't try and scrape the spider off the basket at this stage (that comes later). The coil (along with most of the spider) should lift out once you clip away the old tinsel wire leads. Then, before you start scraping anything, cover the pole piece gap thoroughly over with masking tape (to avoid getting any particles inside the gap once to start scraping off the remanent of the spider and cone etc from the basket). You want to get all gluing surfaces perfectly clean and flat, and using a bit of coarse grit and then fine grit sandpaper is a good way to proceed (once you have finished with the scraper). Doesn't matter if you chip some paint off and go right back to the bare metal when doing this. You can always sand and touch that up with a bit of paint if you want. It really helps to keep the gap taped up during this time to avoid surplus crap getting into it. Vacuum the basket throughly before removing the tape. Then vacuum inside the gap and use the card-backed tape trick to clean out any stuff that might happen to be in the gap. You don't want anything inside the gap.

He who dies with the most tubes... wins

Surf Daddies

Last edited: Oct 20, 2017 22:43:28

The work order is

1) removal of the old cone
2) removal of the spider and coil
3) masking tape over the pole piece gap
4) scraping and sanding all contact surfaces of the basket flat. and vacuuming everything, then thoroughly cleaning out the pole piece gap.
5) dry fitting and 'trimming' everything incrementally. (Don't over trim) including aligning the coil in the pole piece gap with the correct shimming. You can rub your thumbnail around the inner gap in the cone to incrementally burr it out to the appropriate diameter so it fits over the coil former and spider evenly without any pressure. Its better to trim parts a little bit at a time and fit incrementally, rather than trying to trim too much off all at once. The better you can get the parts fitting without any pressure twisting or warping, the better the result.
6) remove all parts and align the coil former to the correct height and spacing in the pole piece gap with the shim. The shim should be wrapped into a cylindrical shape that fits squarely into the gap between the coil former and the pole piece gap. The shim should be able to slide in and out evenly. Don't get the shim crooked, or the resulting gap won't be even. When cutting the shim its best to try and make it a perfect rectangular shape, so that when you roll it into a cylinder, it easily squares up. The shim rectangle should be long enough to go around the pole piece perimeter several times leaving a hair short of 2 or 3 times the exact circumferential length. The number of rolls of this paper will need to be adjusted - usually 2 or 3 circumference lengths - to make sure the shim is snug, but not so tight that it can't be removed when the gluing is finished. The depth of this cylindrical shim should be about 1" deeper than the coil former. Make sure the coil leads line up with the terminals on the basket, and make sure the coil former is positioned depth-wise into the pole piece gap so that there is enough clearance between the bottom of the former and the back of the speaker magnet so that the former won't knock into the back of the magnet when the cone is in maximum incursion, but deep enough so the the former doesn't pop right out of the gap when the cone is in maximum excursion.
7) superglue the spider perimeter to the basket ensuring it is centred evenly around the coil former (some Weber coils and spiders are designed to match without trimming, but this cannot be guaranteed. Where these pieces match, the spider will fit snugly over the former, and then its a matter of ensuring the coil is shimmed properly around the pole-piece gap before gluing anything).
epoxy the spider to the coil former with a thin even bead of epoxy. Don't get any epoxy on the shim otherwise you'll feck everything up.
9) pierce 2 small holes in the cone for the tinsel wire leads (using a largish sharp sewing needle). Don't make these holes too big. They should only be barely big enough for the tinsel wire to pass through.
10) use a small dab of epoxy to hold each tinsel lead onto the back of the cone.
11) adhere the cone perimeter to the basket perimeter, ensuring the cone is centred evenly around the coil former and the tinsel leads are lined up with the coil leads/basket terminals.
12) adhere and clamp the gasket over the top of the cone perimeter ensuring the gasket spaces line up with the bolt holes
13) epoxy the centre of the cone to the coil former with the thin even bead of epoxy. Avoid getting any epoxy on the shim.
14) attach each of the coil leads to the ends of the tinsel leads inside the cone and electrically secure these connections a small dab of solder with a fine pointed soldering iron
15) epoxy each coil lead onto the cone surface with a thin bead of epoxy
16) remove the shim only when everything is totally dry
17) glue the dust cover to the cone ensuring it is aligned over the coil
18) solder the tinsel wire leads to the basket terminals and test the speaker

He who dies with the most tubes... wins

Surf Daddies

Last edited: Oct 20, 2017 22:40:52