SurfBeat
Joined: Dec 31, 2008
Posts: 284
Riverside, CA
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Posted on Nov 22 2016 03:23 PM
I haven't played a bass since the early 70's when I used a 61 Showman head (85W) with 2-JBL 15" D-140's.
Move forward to today, transistor heads pumping out 200w-500w, along with the popular 4-10" speaker enclosure that has been around a long time.
My Showmen primarily perform at festivals and my bass player has gone through 3 amps in one month. He has tried the 4-10", 1 15" and 2 10' using anything from 100W to 300w head and it won't keep up with either my ball busting drummer or my Showman. Heck, it can't cut through my 59 Vibrasonic which I recall is 45W.
I have been tinkering with the idea of loaning my bass player one of my Showman heads and loading an empty cabinet with 2 15" JBL's like I used back in the day.
Good or bad idea?
If bad, then all you bass player that are playing bigger gigs, what are you using and why?
Thanks.
JG
Last edited: Nov 23, 2016 15:19:38
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RobC
Joined: Oct 11, 2010
Posts: 152
Bainbridge Island, Washington
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Posted on Nov 22 2016 11:15 PM
I use a 450 watt TC and a 210 cab and it shakes the fillings out of your teeth. We pump it through the PA for more heart stopping action and use the cab for a stage monitor for the me and drummer. Everyone else gets what they need in the monitor mix.
RobC
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montereyjack66
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
Posts: 646
LA -ish
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Posted on Nov 23 2016 12:27 AM
Forgive me as I've posted this before. I don't much use the Fender on top these days. Most of the time, a single MarkBass Jeff Berlin is plenty, but for larger outdoor gigs, I have a second. Light, powerful, flex-able and ugly as sin!
— mj
bent playing for benter results
Do not attempt to adjust your TV set.
https://www.facebook.com/Bass-VI-Explorers-Club-179437279151035/
https://www.facebook.com/Lost-Planet-Shamen-366987463657230/
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WoodyJ
Joined: Apr 05, 2006
Posts: 1547
Bethlehem, GA
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Posted on Nov 23 2016 08:58 AM
The last surf band I played in had a very loud, over-the-top drummer as well.
He has since been replaced with a drummer that does not emulate John Bonham.
Just sayin'...... 
— Jack Booth
(aka WoodyJ)
The Mariners (1964-68, 1996-2005), 2025
The Hula Hounds (1996-2000)
The X-Rays (1997-2004)
The Surge! (2004, 2011-2012)
Various non-surf bands that actually made money (1978-1990)
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Reverb17
Joined: Jun 14, 2006
Posts: 522
NYC
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Posted on Nov 23 2016 02:10 PM
Our bass player uses an Ampeg PF500 (500watts) into a Avatar 410 cab.
We also have a loud drummer and I play through a Vox AC30. No problems hearing the bass. Our keyboards usually goes through the PA.
— TarantinosNYC
TarantinosNYC FB page
The WrayCyclers FB page
Rockaway Beach Surf Music Festival
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so1om
Joined: May 10, 2012
Posts: 492
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Posted on Nov 23 2016 02:44 PM
I use a 400 watt GK into a single 15 and have for years.
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SurfBeat
Joined: Dec 31, 2008
Posts: 284
Riverside, CA
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Posted on Nov 23 2016 03:21 PM
WoodyJ wrote:
The last surf band I played in had a very loud, over-the-top drummer as well.
Woody, playing through a 61 Showman, I am to blame also, so it is not just my drummer. lol
Last edited: Nov 23, 2016 16:02:35
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WoodyJ
Joined: Apr 05, 2006
Posts: 1547
Bethlehem, GA
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Posted on Nov 23 2016 04:31 PM
SurfBeat wrote:
WoodyJ wrote:
The last surf band I played in had a very loud, over-the-top drummer as well.
Woody, playing through a 61 Showman, I am to blame also, so it is not just my drummer. lol
I'm a Dual Showman fan as well. Here's the rig I've used for countless surf gigs on bass. Still have it!
— Jack Booth
(aka WoodyJ)
The Mariners (1964-68, 1996-2005), 2025
The Hula Hounds (1996-2000)
The X-Rays (1997-2004)
The Surge! (2004, 2011-2012)
Various non-surf bands that actually made money (1978-1990)
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SurfBeat
Joined: Dec 31, 2008
Posts: 284
Riverside, CA
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Posted on Nov 23 2016 04:52 PM
Jackarooo:
That is a bitchin, pristine looking Showman. That made me go look at mine to ensure it is looking as well.
So, you agree, using a Showman for bass makes good horse sense!
You must be an old fart....."The Mariners/1964? I liked what I heard-traditional sound.
I spent a couple of years down at FLETC in Brunswick, GA. Great beaches.
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SurfBeat
Joined: Dec 31, 2008
Posts: 284
Riverside, CA
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Posted on Nov 23 2016 05:17 PM
Woody:
Out of curiosity I retrieved your profile and was shocked, to say the least at what I saw.
Although not subject related, I just had to checkmate ya' and I am sure you will know what I mean when you look at the photo attached hereto.
Long story - I recall sometime around 61, maybe 62 when I was in high school, I was having trouble with my Showman. My dad knew a guy at Fender (Sam Hutton) so I tossed my amp in back of my 46 Merc "Woody" (gas was only .25 then) and headed over to the Fender plant in Fullerton. I located Mr. Hutton at the plant and he took me over to another building. While I was waiting to get a diagnosis I noticed the amp reflected in the photo. It was smaller than my Showman, yet had a big 15 JBL which I thought looked bitchin. Some short, balding old guy came walking by (later I learned it was Leo Fender) and he spoke briefly to the fella that was checking out my amp. Mr. Fender then looked over at me, didn't smile, and said something to the effect: You're too skinny to be toting a big Showman, you need something like that amp, pointing to the amp in the photo. I did not like his wise crack, so being kind of a smart-aleck myself I responded, "that Showman is not that heavy, but, if you replace the tag on that baby Showman with a Showman tag, I will buy it, right now. Mr. Fender smiled, then said see my secretary as he walked away. The only job I ever had was a paper route a few years earlier, so, I did not have any extra moola (except gigging money) to buy that amp. A few months later that amp was under our Christmas tree, my Mom smiling when I came into the parlor.
Last edited: Nov 23, 2016 17:52:58
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WoodyJ
Joined: Apr 05, 2006
Posts: 1547
Bethlehem, GA
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Posted on Nov 23 2016 06:03 PM
SurfBeat wrote:
Jackarooo:
That is a bitchin, pristine looking Showman. That made me go look at mine to ensure it is looking as well.
So, you agree, using a Showman for bass makes good horse sense!
You must be an old fart....."The Mariners/1964? I liked what I heard-traditional sound.
I spent a couple of years down at FLETC in Brunswick, GA. Great beaches.
Yes, I am an old fart. The Mariners were formed in Murfreesboro, TN (near Nashville) in 1964 and are still together with a couple of personnel changes.
The Dual Showman in it's day was pretty much the top of the guitar and bass heap. Then the much more powerful Sunns, Kustoms and others arrived on the scene, followed by the Ampeg SVT which to this day is the "big stage" standard bass rig. Today the hot, easily transportable setup is a 500-800 watt Class D micro amp into a modern speaker cabinet or two.
IMO the limiting factor with a Showman is that the original cabinets weren't really designed for bass but they actually do a pretty decent job with a pair of good bass speakers. D-140F's work well, mine has a pair of E-V 15BX's which are rated at 400 watts. But most any modern 2x15 bass cabinet (or a pair of 1x15's) will outperform the Dual Showman "small" 36"x24"x11.5"cabinet at higher volume levels. I'm not a fan of the larger vertical orientation Showman cabinets that arrived around 1967. Their sound just isn't as tight and focused as the earlier smaller version.
I like your Showman combo, and what a GREAT story that is! I put a similar one together a few years back using a Deluxe Reverb cabinet with a 2x10 baffle loaded with a pair of Weber Californias. I gave it to my brother for Christmas a couple years ago. I called it the Dual Showbaby. Great little amp.
(By the way, I was fortunate to get one of Sam Hutton's "tweed amp" clocks before he passed away. It hangs front and center in my home studio.)
— Jack Booth
(aka WoodyJ)
The Mariners (1964-68, 1996-2005), 2025
The Hula Hounds (1996-2000)
The X-Rays (1997-2004)
The Surge! (2004, 2011-2012)
Various non-surf bands that actually made money (1978-1990)
Last edited: Nov 23, 2016 18:15:17
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SurfBeat
Joined: Dec 31, 2008
Posts: 284
Riverside, CA
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Posted on Nov 23 2016 06:35 PM
WoodyJ wrote:
Yes, I am an old fart. The Mariners were formed in Murfreesboro, TN (near Nashville) in 1964 and are still together with a couple of personnel changes.
Today the hot, easily transportable setup is a 500-800 watt Class D micro amp into a modern speaker cabinet or two.
But most any modern 2x15 bass cabinet (or a pair of 1x15's) will outperform the Dual Showman "small" 36"x24"x11.5"cabinet at higher volume levels.
(By the way, I was fortunate to get one of Sam Hutton's "tweed amp" clocks before he passed away. It hangs front and center in my home studio.)
Small world: You also knew Sam Hutton. Did you ever run into Charlie Williams who worked at the plant with Mr. Hutton? Mr. Williams has one of the original pick-up winders from the day and was still making pickups the last time I saw him a few years ago. He lived a few blocks away from Mr. Hutton. He told me that the boys at Fender borrowed his so Abigail the pickup gal (I don't know her) could replicate the way the old pick-ups were wound.
Are you an original Mariner? If so, you are really an old fart, like me.
So, you recommend a 500-800 watt Class D micro amp and most any modern 2x15 bass cabinet (or a pair of 1x15's)?
My bass player got a sweet deal from Sweetwater, $20 per month for four years for any purchase. He has gone through 3 configurations, returned all.
He is now tinkering with the idea of getting two 1-15 cab with a 200W amp installed in each speaker cabinet.
Any comments on that configuration will be appreciated.
Here is some recent clips from my Showmen.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6no2XSGC2o&list=PLiMKi7G3HiEiKNtAIvMoHlKEbVrM5HfAo
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WoodyJ
Joined: Apr 05, 2006
Posts: 1547
Bethlehem, GA
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Posted on Nov 23 2016 07:19 PM
Sadly, I never met Mr. Hutton but there was a time when he advertised his tweed amp clocks in Vintage Guitar magazine. That's how I got mine.
Yes, I am a founding member and the lead guitarist of The Mariners. Ron Ryan (aka Tone Boy on here) is the other active founding member and his wife Martha is now our drummer. We were all in high school together, Martha was our biggest fan and unofficial roadie back in the day. Original bassist Ed Pater is no longer in the band but still lives in Murfreesboro as do Ron and Martha. I'm in an Atlanta suburb so we don't get together as much as would like.
Back to bass amps - From what I've read, the best bang for the buck for what you guys are doing sound- and looks-wise could be a Fender Rumble 500 (500 watt) micro head and a pair of matching 1x15 Rumble cabinets. I am pretty sure that Sweetwater sells these. The current 3rd generation Rumble Bass gear gets very good reviews. The 1st generation Rumbles were, let's say, not very good.
Most of my modern bass stage gear I've purchased used via the TalkBass bass forum classifieds. There are some really good deals to be found there. Here's a link:
https://www.talkbass.com/categories/classifieds-bg.252/
Modern bassists seem to be a very fickle lot when it comes to gear, much like guitarists regarding the "flavor of the month" effects pedals. I found two like new Mesa Powerhouse 1x15's on there for less than half of their original cost. I did recently buy a new Mesa D-800 Class D micro bass head from Sweetwater. 800 watts through those two aforementioned cabs is a near-life changing experience and the Mesa also works beautifully for recording.
I'd totally avoid the "amps in the cabinets" rig you mentioned. Have your bassist try to find a local music store in his area that is a Fender dealer to test drive the Rumble rig I mentioned. Also, Gallien-Krueger bass gear is excellent and is a step up from the Fender Rumble stuff. As with most everything, you get what you pay for.
Hope this helps!
— Jack Booth
(aka WoodyJ)
The Mariners (1964-68, 1996-2005), 2025
The Hula Hounds (1996-2000)
The X-Rays (1997-2004)
The Surge! (2004, 2011-2012)
Various non-surf bands that actually made money (1978-1990)
Last edited: Nov 23, 2016 19:23:04
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SurfBeat
Joined: Dec 31, 2008
Posts: 284
Riverside, CA
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Posted on Nov 23 2016 07:25 PM
Jack:
Thanks for all the info. I truly appreciate it.
Moreover, it is always great to hook up with a non- CA boy who grew up in the era playing our West Coast sound.
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Redfeather
Joined: Jul 30, 2016
Posts: 896
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Posted on Dec 02 2016 12:19 AM
Hey Surfbeat,
I've been watching some of your guys' videos on youtube and enjoying the hell out of your sound. It's hard to find surf that sounds like the old stuff these days but you got it. Very authentic! Then again, if you're a Del-Tone, you're as authentic as it gets. That like royalty around here! You gotta tell us some stories about all that.
Also, I noticed you string your guitar upside down. Did you catch this from Dick?
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