The Strat has a completely different tonal behavior than the jag - I tried for decades to get the tone of the Beach Boys' riffs right until I realized that it's the Offset tone - A Jazzmaster would have brought me close enough, but the very characteristic clean tone of a Strat just cannot sound like that. I'm convinced now that the tone is in the pickups, but the tonal behavior is in the trem/bridge (this - aside from body shape - is why the “true“ offset bunch is a class of its own). Their tonal behavior is more stabile, less quacky. The Strat somehow “dances“ into pitch when picked, while an offset is spot on sober. I found playing a pure sound with a Strat, but then again, this expressionful quacking is just the signature sound that made strats famous. You like it or you don't. While I keep my great Strat, I find myself reaching for my offsets nearly every time. If you want to know what I mean at an extreme, listen to the riffs of “moonlight shadow“ from Mike Oldfield. He picks the strat really hard with his finger.

If the hallmark has the offset typical third bridge design, I'd go with a Jag - Or a Jazzmaster, which sounds more “settled“ (where a Jag is more jangly, with less sustain). Many find the JM more mainstream/versatile, tone-wise - with a pretty similar basic behavior as a Jag. There is plenty of surf music that makes use of the Strart behavior, though.

I'd test all three, if you have access, and base my decision on that. Playing a Jag against a Strat was a big eye-opener to me...

Last edited: Jul 06, 2016 00:50:38

I haven't got a lot of playing experience but I had a Jag (Johnny Marr version) and I just couldn't get on with it. Don't know if it was the scale length or neck radius or what - but it seemed to fight me all the way (and too many switch/knob settings!) Sold it and bought a Jazzmaster which was the best thing I've ever done guitar wise. I guess I'm saying that in your quest for tone don't overlook the need to try before you buy...

Wherever you go, there you are

http://rogerfowles.co.uk/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKUsTNis44w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKauwombaC8

Put just about any guitar through a Fender reverb unit and you automatically get that glassy tone that we associate with classic surf.
The Strat and Jag are obviously great options for surf but I also recommend trying out a Jazzmaster.
The Strat is my favoured all-rounder for all styles but the vibrato arm is in my way when I want to keep my hand close to the bridge for speed picking (I can work around it, tho); I prefer the JM/Jag offset vibrato system for surf as the arm is out of the way and the vibrato action has more of a Bigsby feel.

Lorne
The Surf Shakers: https://www.facebook.com/TheSurfShakers
Vancouver BC Canada

elgrayso wrote:

Full question:
I have an Ibanez SA series [just like this one]

No reason that shouldn't work, you can really play surf with anything. I've used a Gibson ES-355 on numerous occasions.

The tone I’m looking for: Here is a clip of their track "Escape Velocity" followed by the pitiful recording of my Ibanez. (I also do realize he is a more skilled guitarist than me, ha)

As mentioned earlier, this was in the middle of his period of very heavy Gretsch use.

The actual guitar Starcrunch (the guitarist) uses is a Hallmark Custom 60

Which is what he uses now, which isn't to say it sounds like the Mosrite he used to use or the Gretsch he used.

However, from what I have read elsewhere, the Stratocaster is very versatile and the Jaguar isn’t.

I dispute this greatly! Strat always maintains a Strat sound to me whereas the Jag isn't particularly voiced, just lots of lows and lots of highs with some mid.

I should also mention that my current strings are pretty old and probably medium gauge which may have added to the dullness. Starcrunch uses 11s according to [this blogger who is also obsessed with the MOAM tone]

Get a set of DR Pure Blues .11s. These strings have a roundcore versus a hexcore that most sets have. You will find them snappier which will help.

What do you think? I have done a lot of research, but I wanted the opinions of real surf guitarists who are familiar with these things. I'm leaning towards the Jag but let me know if this sounds like a good choice.
Thanks in advance for any advice!

I have five Jags and a Strat. The Strat has its place, I would never dream of playing it for a MoAM? inspired thing. Or even surf for that matter... I prefer it for jangly arpeggiated things. Jags are well-rounded can-do-anything guitars.

Thanks everybody for all the responses!

I read he used a Gretsch at one point, but mainly had an actual Mosrite until the Hallmark. I didn't realize the Gretsch was in use during the recording of Project Infinity, I read that it was used in early recordings, but assumed that only mean the first album or two. I will have to listen to some of the post-1000X recordings to listen to the Hallmark when I get home. That might be my favorite album, but I own all of them and like all of them and pretty much all the tones. The different sound on the Project Infinity album always struck out has having a "darker reverb” and has a “larger sound” or something, but I'm not an expert so I'm not sure if my interpretation makes any sense.

It sounds like the Strat isn't the best surf option and now its more of a Hallmark/Jag/Jazzmaster question, though I haven't read too much about the Jazzmaster. The Gretsch may be too much of a guitar for me, but I am open if it is recommended for me (but it sounds like it isn't necessarily). The problem with the Hallmark is it's super hard to find used models of it, whereas there are tons of Jags on ebay at any given second and you can score a really good price.

One thing to keep in mind is that I'm not a huge guitarist and it's more of a light hobby, I always go back to it for a little bit here and there, but I don't spend a ton of time with it. But like I said, when I do jam with it, I almost always play surf. I recently found out my Ibanez is worth more than I thought (probably around $375) and figured it would make sense to try and get a similarly priced surf guitar instead. The Jag definitely fits that price range, but I am willing to pay up to $500 depending on how much closer it gets me to the sound.

As far as amps and effects, I don’t own an amp and instead plug directly into my computer interface. I use amp/effect simulators such as Lepou and Guitar Rig 5. I know it’s not the same thing and this will limit me to an extent, but I’m really trying not to buy more stuff right now (drums and audio production equipment and software are already beyond what I should be spending!). However there are a ton of options in Guitar Rig, especially when it comes to delays and reverbs.

My ultimate goal is to get as close as I can to a MOAM (or at least surf) sound that I can plug into my computer and save some presets that I like. Again, I know it won’t ever be as close as the real amps, etc, but I think I can get a lot closer than I am right now. In the future I may be able to justify getting more stuff to accomplish the sound, but right now I am trying not to buy more things and instead focus on upgrading the guitar and experimenting with my digital reverbs/delays and amp simulators. I imagine that the digital stuff is heresy for a lot of you real guitar players, but hopefully you understand that is where I am at the moment

Don't forget that most Gretsch guitars have Filtertron p'ups which are low output humbuckers. They have a character that works well with the acoustic properties of hollow body guitars.
Mosrites tone is more along the lines of Gretsch tone than Fender, but has its own growl going on. Check Ghastly Ones records for examples.
Star Crunch has a unique percussive sensibility that doesn't seem to rely so much on any particular guitar but adapts to hollow and solid axes that have more attack than sustain. Forget about Strats altogether for that. Even a Tele would be closer - but go for something with that growl and trim the lows.
Nobody mentioned what kind of picks the Crunch wields - my guess is hard ones - different picks can yield radically altered guitar tones.
I'd say go to used guitar stores or hang out with guitar playing friends and play a bunch of their axes until you train your ear to hear the differences between them. It takes a while to be able to hear and feel differences. Guitar playing is a long winding road with many switchbacks and dead ends. Have a good journey.

Squink Out!

He gave me one of his picks. It's between medium and hard. I can take a pic later but that won't help describing the feel

EDIT: Ignore this post, the listing I found isn't a real jag it actually looks more like a Jazzmaster and has the wrong pickups.

I found this listing near where I live, but I am unsure if it really is a Jaguar because it doesn't have all the switches and is in a color I have never seen before.

Last edited: Jul 06, 2016 13:09:02

Thank you josheboy

It sounds like most of these listings should work then (surf green looks cool)?

Anything I need to double check before I buy? Just making sure it is listed as "vintage modified" and does it need a particular kind of pickup, bridge etc? Sounds like I need to make sure it is the single coil pickup, but thats really all I know to ask

EDIT: JUST BOUGHT THIS ONE! It's surf green $280 + reasonable shipping listed as "new other" (he said it was lightly used as a demo, with no scratches). I haven't seen this good of a deal in any of my research so I jumped on it (typically new go for $400 and used for $350). There is also a 14 day return policy in case I absolutely hate it.

Thanks for all the help and information everyone! I will consider the Hallmark as a potential future guitar, but this one should work well as a start! I will also follow the string recommendations that have been brought up.

josheboy, let me know if you can guess the gauge of the Dunlop pick you got from Starcrunch and I'll grab some similar weighted picks

Last edited: Jul 06, 2016 14:57:44

From what JObeast writes (i have no hallmark to compare), your buy sounds like a good option. It's the correct one VM, I have the same one. It's tonal behavior is also low sustain/high attack like a hollow body guitar. If you need hotter pickups: In a Squier forum, Ken from Rose Pickups has a really good reputation for customizing. His magic dragon ha jag pickups cost less than $70 a set, and you can ask him to overwind them. You might even want to detail your mosrite/hallmark tonal quest to him - he is really customer oriented and esteemed for nailing pickup tones. That jag might be the closest bang-for-the-buck base for such a Jagrite mod...

Last edited: Jul 06, 2016 16:44:26