IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10331
southern Michigan
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Posted on May 31 2013 08:39 AM
6V6 wrote:
Thank you for contributing to this post...I think there are many in our community who consider you a local authority on all things stratocaster!
Those poor misled souls! Really sold them a bill of goods...  ;) Seriously, thanks, I appreciate it.
I would very interested in knowing if you have gear secrets for live playing.. pedals, boosts, etc...
Not really. I keep it pretty basic. Guitar into an echo/delay unit into a reverb unit into an amp. For recording I always use a Vox AC30 in addition to my Fender amp of choice at the moment. That's about the only unusual thing. Well, I think I may have been one of the first to consistently use an echo unit (set on a fairly long delay) along with a reverb unit, starting with the Cossacks debut in '98. I thought I was just doing what the Atlantics were doing, but it turns out they never used reverb units. I think that's a big part of my sound, and maybe something that Alex was possibly influenced by, as well. I think the only surf guitarist that was doing that before me was Dave Wronski, though he wasn't a direct influence on me in that regard. But that's as close as it gets to any 'secret'.
or are you confident that you can get your tone on any borrowed strat straight through the tank and fender amp?
I've definitely played through MANY different Fender amps and reverb units when touring, and I was always able to dial in at least a decent sound, so from that perspective, yes. But in terms of using any Strat and getting my tone? I'm not so sure of that. I like my Strats set up with heavier strings (12s) and medium action, and if I was to play something with thin strings, I'm sure it would affect my sound and probably my playing. And there are a lot of crappy Strats out there, too! I love every one of mine, they're incredible instruments.
Very nice words regarding Alex and his playing..sounds like a great guy!
Definitely! We spent two days together four years ago - and I still miss him!
Interesting how much he has modded his strat (gear must mean something to him!). Pretty sizable investment. I guess my strat must be similar in that its an American Series
Yes, I think they're very similar, yours might even have some improvements (no pool routing, for example).
I have the 2 post trem with modern saddles...have been contemplating putting stamped saddles in just for fun (and maybe a new black too, not sure).
My fiesta red Strat was a Strat Plus when I bought it in '90. Around '01-'02, I had my tech swap out the 2-post trem with a vintage style one, and I personally thought the sound improved, and I prefer the feel of the vintage trem, too. You should look into it. It's not the easiest mod and it may cost you quite a bit, so replacing the saddles would probably be a much more cost effective alternative. Since Fender is now using stamped saddles on their AmStd Strats, I guess they also have concluded they sound better.
That is really the level of tone I was after in the post...a workable strat tone that is full, but with clarity, but at the same time has some character. As much as I would LOVE to sound exactly like Alex (or Ivan), that wasn't really my absolute goal.
Completely understood. We all have tonal references when searching for our preferred tone. For me it came down to splitting the difference between Hank Marvin and Dick Dale with a large dose of the Atlantics thrown in. And so I ended up with something that I guess is a bit different.
But take any angle you like - this is an interesting post and I have enjoyed the comments and advice.
Agreed!
— Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube
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mike_fried
Joined: Aug 02, 2012
Posts: 162
Nashville, TN
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Posted on May 31 2013 07:16 PM
One benefit of heavy strings on a Strat is that you can get the pickups closer to the strings without incurring "Strat-itis" (due to the pickups' magnetic field interfering with the strings' vibration). Needless to say, the combination of heavier string gauges closer to the pickups can really beef up the tone. Great thread about a great guitarist!
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Kawentzmann
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 1062
Berlin, Germany
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Posted on May 31 2013 10:24 PM
It's often not so obvious, because technically adding echo to reverb is just an extra piece of shrapnel in a handgranate. Thus I wouldnever make such a claim (to be the first). Positively the combo was used by me on Apache in 92, Swanlake in 93 and Santa Cruz in 95. It was no big deal so I didn't take if I used it earlier on, on tracks like Autumn Leaves. Like I said it's kinda hard to tell often, it makes the reverb more melodic by adding less difused repeats, it's a sonic needle in a hay stack.
IvanP wrote:
6V6 wrote:
Thank you for contributing to this post...I think there are many in our community who consider you a local authority on all things stratocaster!
Those poor misled souls! Really sold them a bill of goods... ;) Seriously, thanks, I appreciate it.
I would very interested in knowing if you have gear secrets for live playing.. pedals, boosts, etc...
Not really. I keep it pretty basic. Guitar into an echo/delay unit into a reverb unit into an amp. For recording I always use a Vox AC30 in addition to my Fender amp of choice at the moment. That's about the only unusual thing. Well, I think I may have been one of the first to consistently use an echo unit (set on a fairly long delay) along with a reverb unit, starting with the Cossacks debut in '98. I thought I was just doing what the Atlantics were doing, but it turns out they never used reverb units. I think that's a big part of my sound, and maybe something that Alex was possibly influenced by, as well. I think the only surf guitarist that was doing that before me was Dave Wronski, though he wasn't a direct influence on me in that regard. But that's as close as it gets to any 'secret'.
or are you confident that you can get your tone on any borrowed strat straight through the tank and fender amp?
I've definitely played through MANY different Fender amps and reverb units when touring, and I was always able to dial in at least a decent sound, so from that perspective, yes. But in terms of using any Strat and getting my tone? I'm not so sure of that. I like my Strats set up with heavier strings (12s) and medium action, and if I was to play something with thin strings, I'm sure it would affect my sound and probably my playing. And there are a lot of crappy Strats out there, too! I love every one of mine, they're incredible instruments.
Very nice words regarding Alex and his playing..sounds like a great guy!
Definitely! We spent two days together four years ago - and I still miss him!
Interesting how much he has modded his strat (gear must mean something to him!). Pretty sizable investment. I guess my strat must be similar in that its an American Series
Yes, I think they're very similar, yours might even have some improvements (no pool routing, for example).
I have the 2 post trem with modern saddles...have been contemplating putting stamped saddles in just for fun (and maybe a new black too, not sure).
My fiesta red Strat was a Strat Plus when I bought it in '90. Around '01-'02, I had my tech swap out the 2-post trem with a vintage style one, and I personally thought the sound improved, and I prefer the feel of the vintage trem, too. You should look into it. It's not the easiest mod and it may cost you quite a bit, so replacing the saddles would probably be a much more cost effective alternative. Since Fender is now using stamped saddles on their AmStd Strats, I guess they also have concluded they sound better.
That is really the level of tone I was after in the post...a workable strat tone that is full, but with clarity, but at the same time has some character. As much as I would LOVE to sound exactly like Alex (or Ivan), that wasn't really my absolute goal.
Completely understood. We all have tonal references when searching for our preferred tone. For me it came down to splitting the difference between Hank Marvin and Dick Dale with a large dose of the Atlantics thrown in. And so I ended up with something that I guess is a bit different.
But take any angle you like - this is an interesting post and I have enjoyed the comments and advice.
Agreed!
— The Exotic Guitar of Kahuna Kawentzmann
You can get the boy out of the Keynes era, but you can’t get the Keynes era out of the boy.
Last edited: May 31, 2013 22:28:27
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IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10331
southern Michigan
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Posted on Jun 01 2013 07:57 AM
Kawentzmann wrote:
It's often not so obvious, because technically adding echo to reverb is just an extra piece of shrapnel in a handgranate. Thus I wouldnever make such a claim (to be the first). Positively the combo was used by me on Apache in 92, Swanlake in 93 and Santa Cruz in 95. It was no big deal so I didn't take if I used it earlier on, on tracks like Autumn Leaves. Like I said it's kinda hard to tell often, it makes the reverb more melodic by adding less difused repeats, it's a sonic needle in a hay stack.
All very true, KK, I completely agree, and please forgive me if I came off bragging or big-headed. As I did mention, I certainly didn't think I was doing anything new, just trying to do what I thought the Atlantics did. And there's certainly quite a bit of studio reverb added to those early Shadows recordings - not quite the same, but close. What I should have said is that in retrospect it seems to me that I was an early adopter of a sound based on fairly heavy echo along with heavy reverb on pretty much every song, something I didn't see that much in the '90s. I think it's become more common since then, though I doubt that I had that much to do with that, Wronski probably had a lot more influence - and of course, at some level it's completely obvious to combine those two! But it's certainly been a huge part of my sound.
— Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube
Last edited: Jun 01, 2013 07:59:07
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IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10331
southern Michigan
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Posted on Jun 01 2013 03:18 PM
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El-Salvaje
Joined: May 22, 2007
Posts: 73
berlin germany
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Posted on Jun 06 2013 09:57 AM
Hi people!
Wowe this is a whole lotta info...i am thrilled and flattered about all this, and happy about your attentive appreciation...
The older I get, the more i dig the strat for instro and surf duties...
More soon, a big hug all around!
Vibes
Alex
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big_papu
Joined: May 17, 2006
Posts: 657
Buenos Aires
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Posted on Jun 06 2013 12:07 PM
Alex, you are a master, my friend 
— El Papu & los Fantasticos Reverberantes
Last edited: Jun 06, 2013 12:07:25
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tubeswell
Joined: Sep 24, 2011
Posts: 1424
Wellington, NZ
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Posted on Jun 06 2013 12:25 PM
Yep - Hats off to you Alex
— He who dies with the most tubes... wins
Surf Daddies
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Mark2Bra
Joined: Sep 01, 2013
Posts: 248
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Posted on Apr 22 2015 12:55 AM
Sorry, but when I listen to Alex's studio recordings, his guitar choice seems pretty clear...at least to me
Jazzmaster?
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mad_dog
Joined: Sep 23, 2008
Posts: 349
Montclair, NJ
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Posted on Apr 23 2015 07:47 AM
Alex: You and your band are WONDERFUL!! Great sounds, great playing.
MD
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artdecade
Joined: Aug 30, 2012
Posts: 399
Twangsville
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Posted on Mar 19 2016 10:12 AM
Anyone know where the original link got off to? It was a great concert, but it seems to be gone now.
— To Boldly go where no Tiki has gone before...
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crumble
Joined: Sep 09, 2008
Posts: 3158
Guildford England
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Posted on Mar 20 2016 06:21 AM
artdecade wrote:
Anyone know where the original link got off to? It was a great concert, but it seems to be gone now.
The SESC Brasil concert if that's the one your asking for, went to YouTube.
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artdecade
Joined: Aug 30, 2012
Posts: 399
Twangsville
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Posted on Mar 20 2016 07:28 AM
That's the one! Thanks. I haven't see it in a while!
— To Boldly go where no Tiki has gone before...
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artdecade
Joined: Aug 30, 2012
Posts: 399
Twangsville
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Posted on Mar 31 2016 11:01 AM
So - watching back on that video, I was able to see a closeup of his pedal board. He uses:
Strat > Danelectro DE-1 Dan-Echo > Boss CS-3 > Boss Tuner > Verb/Amps
I have to admit, I am confused about the pedal order. It does seem odd to use the Delay pedal before the Compressor - unless of course Alex doesn't use them at the same time. I am also not really clear on how he uses the compressor. I think it might be a subtle always-on type of thing, rather than just as a boost of sorts.
Either way, he shows that you don't need a lot of fancy gear for great tone. His fingers and technique are what give him that sweet, sweet tone. He has such a great touch throughout!
— To Boldly go where no Tiki has gone before...
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SanchoPansen
Joined: Jan 04, 2011
Posts: 1588
Berlin L-Berg
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Posted on Mar 31 2016 12:40 PM
Here's a clear screenshot of the settings.
After watching the video I bought an CS-3 and used the exact same settings.
It's amazing. That's the magic of the tone, right there in this box.
The order is: Tuner -> CS-3 -> Delay -> Tank -> Amp
Edit: The settings used on the compressor are not subtle at all. Attack is maxed and that's the trick. It's no voodoo finger thing, it's the CS-3 and very good guitar playing.
— The Hicadoolas
Last edited: Mar 31, 2016 12:43:20
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artdecade
Joined: Aug 30, 2012
Posts: 399
Twangsville
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Posted on Mar 31 2016 12:59 PM
Whoops! You are right. I looked at the pedals in reverse!
Also, by setting the attack all the way up you are actually preventing the compressor from "pumping" (or clamping down quickly) so it makes it more transparent - not less.
— To Boldly go where no Tiki has gone before...
Last edited: Mar 31, 2016 13:03:58
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SanchoPansen
Joined: Jan 04, 2011
Posts: 1588
Berlin L-Berg
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Posted on Mar 31 2016 01:19 PM
Oh no, sorry, it is NOT transparent when maxed. Every single note is pushed, so you get super-sweet drip on every fret. There's not much to control with that settings, everything is kept on the exact same output level.
When playing your favorite (Fender) tube amp, and you have the opportunity to crank it, there is absolutely no need to use a compressor. But playing in a more controlled enviroment, you can't rely on natural compression. So using artificial compression via a pedal is a logical way to go. When I play my Surfer on 6 I do not need anything else. But playing at home with a Crate Powerblock and Headphones, the CS-3 with those settings are a whole new level of tone.
Here's a demo I made after I bought the CS-3 a year ago: Click
It's CS-3 Off / On. I think you get a good impression of what it does at the settings shown above.
— The Hicadoolas
Last edited: Mar 31, 2016 13:20:04
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artdecade
Joined: Aug 30, 2012
Posts: 399
Twangsville
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Posted on Mar 31 2016 01:31 PM
I'm still not sure about that. The attack setting on a Boss CS-3 is a release. When set at maximum, it means that it immediately releases the note so that the next one does not get choked by the previous note. When set lower, the notes are held onto longer.
It is the Sustain that brings the squish factor in. If set high, it will pump. And, if set low, it be more transparent. It looks like Alex has his set up a bit squishier.
— To Boldly go where no Tiki has gone before...
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SanchoPansen
Joined: Jan 04, 2011
Posts: 1588
Berlin L-Berg
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Posted on Mar 31 2016 01:33 PM
I suggest you buy one and try it yourself then...
— The Hicadoolas
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artdecade
Joined: Aug 30, 2012
Posts: 399
Twangsville
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Posted on Mar 31 2016 01:39 PM
I had one years ago so I am speaking from a scattered memory.  I played country with one for years with the attack maxed and the Sustain south of 12. Its a nice snappy sound - very Vince Gill. As the Sustain gets increased, the pedal gets noisier and it goes from snappy to rubber-band elastic sounding. I trust that you are happy with it, but we are disagreeing on what the knobs do. A max Attack setting sets the release, not the compression.
— To Boldly go where no Tiki has gone before...
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