Maybe some of you guys might know this stuff. It's not exactly Surf, but some of it is instro...

I got the "galloping" delay sounds of Hank Marvin - I had good success nailing Apache and Wonderful Land and a few others.

My understanding is Marvin, with The Shadows, never used Reverb, only Delay (and it was typically this rhythmic style of delay).

For The Ventures version of Walk Don't Run, I actually pulled up an Echo patch, rather than a soaky Reverb. There seems to be more "bounce" to it - more like a slapback - or it's reverb with an early reflection that's pretty prominent.

I understand that Duane Eddy used some kind of amp that had this built in Vibrato.

But a lot of those guys also had "echo" in the form of Slapback.

Now you hear guys on forums always talking about having only one repeat for slapback, but what I hear is typically more than one. And knowing how tape echo units of the day worked, it seems logical that there was going to be more than one repeat.

However, I also know that at Sun Studios they used a 2nd tape machine so there was only 1 repeat, and they piped it into an actual reverb "chamber" - a basement. This may have added some additional early reflections (it was a natural room after all).

At any rate, my trying to emulate it with an effect means that it's really a combination of echo and reverb, echo with multiple (but subtle) repeats, or a reverb that's very "early reflectiony" - which didn't come around until later tho...

Another post here mentioned Plate reverb on a unit being the sound of the Spaghetti Western sound. I know there are acutally a lot of different things going on there and what we hear in our heads as being iconic SW is probably a combination of various elements, or 1 particular sound. Still, I'd be interested if it was actually plate reverb used (they had them by then) on any that did have verb on them.

A "Brief History of Echo" is what I'm asking for - what developed when, which iconic recordings were which used on, etc.

For me, reading about an understanding how Marvin use delays instead of verb helped me to understand how to get that kind of sound. It also helped with David Gilmour and the Binson Echorec and I can nail those tones and get the general vibe as well.

I have a line 6 M13 and it's got a fair number of models, and some that aren't named, but clearly modelled after something well known (the manual does name some of them of course). So I have good luck finding the models that will do the sounds and get them dialled in.

What I'm lacking, I suppose, is in my "mind's ear" I'm kind of lumping anything "echo-y" (that isn't obviusly a long delay) as "spring reverb" when in fact, they could be Plate, Echo, Slapback+reverb, etc. and until I do the research as I did into Marvin, I don't quite know how to attain the sounds.

So knowledge about what type of repeat effects were used on various famous recordings of the "guitar-led" instrumentals of the 50s and 60s - would be most welcome. I'll take vocal-led pieces too - as I was interested in what Gallup used on his guitar, or if it was only studio (I don't think the Standels they think he played had any kind of echo, unlike the Echo-Sonic amp that I believe Scotty Moore played).

???

stevel wrote:

My understanding is Marvin, with The Shadows, never used Reverb, only Delay (and it was typically this rhythmic style of delay).

When recording at Abbey Road Marvin’s signal was routed into their chamber.

I understand that Duane Eddy used some kind of amp that had this built in Vibrato.

He used a Magantone, but that was modified to produce tremolo, not vibrato. A significant element of that amp was a tweeter along twith the regular speaker.

Now you hear guys on forums always talking about having only one repeat for slapback, but what I hear is typically more than one. And knowing how tape echo units of the day worked, it seems logical that there was going to be more than one repeat.

Maybe they go for an 80s Psychobilly vibe? There is a good chance studios dedicated a customized extra tape machine to a single repeat and the less significant repeats result from acoustic feedback.

However, I also know that at Sun Studios they used a 2nd tape machine so there was only 1 repeat, and they piped it into an actual reverb "chamber" - a basement. This may have added some additional early reflections (it was a natural room after all).

At any rate, my trying to emulate it with an effect means that it's really a combination of echo and reverb, echo with multiple (but subtle) repeats, or a reverb that's very "early reflectiony" - which didn't come around until later tho...

Early reflections happen in a chamber as well, is a matter of mic/speaker placement if you catch them.

Another post here mentioned Plate reverb on a unit being the sound of the Spaghetti Western sound. I know there are acutally a lot of different things going on there and what we hear in our heads as being iconic SW is probably a combination of various elements, or 1 particular sound. Still, I'd be interested if it was actually plate reverb used (they had them by then) on any that did have verb on them.

My impression is that plates were adopted by name studi0s as quickly as solid state.

I have a line 6 M13 and it's got a fair number of models, and some that aren't named, but clearly modelled after something well known (the manual does name some of them of course). So I have good luck finding the models that will do the sounds and get them dialled in.

What I'm lacking, I suppose, is in my "mind's ear" I'm kind of lumping anything "echo-y" (that isn't obviusly a long delay) as "spring reverb" when in fact, they could be Plate, Echo, Slapback+reverb, etc. and until I do the research as I did into Marvin, I don't quite know how to attain the sounds.

• reverb - a lot of diffusion
• echo/delay - no diffusión
  In real life we hear a mixture of both.

Generally I would recommend to focus on one sound. Pick a studio that has material available to study. If you rebuild the signal chain of a certain period step by step, the rest is up to you - much like making mixing decisions when the reference material was recorded.

The Exotic Guitar of Kahuna Kawentzmann

You can get the boy out of the Keynes era, but you can’t get the Keynes era out of the boy.

Last edited: Jan 23, 2016 01:48:33

stevel wrote:

I got the "galloping" delay sounds of Hank Marvin - I had good success nailing Apache and Wonderful Land and a few others.

Here is a fine discussion by Hank Marvin himself as to influences, and various echoes. (Echo discussion comes early although the whole video is great.) FYI, the 2 echoes you cite are vastly different. In fact as Hank admits, the "gallop" is not even in time with the song "...but it seems to work." In demonstrating them, he plays muted notes initially to showcase the repeats relative to the multiple heads involved. Hope you enjoy it.

Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel

DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.

Ok, just wanted to make sure 'cause it sounded like you're serious about "nailing it." Some people get the gallop and suddenly think they have "Hank's sound" in their toolbox.
Have fun!

Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel

DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.

Hexabuzz wrote:

This may offer some insight, as well as some setting ideas to translate over to the gear you're using:

https://robertkeeley.com/product/Memphis+Sun+LoFi+Reverb+Delay+ADT/

Yes, it does actually! In fact, this addresses some of the other issues in the other thread I made - they're calling their early reflections "pre-delay" too so I'm pretty sure that's what Line 6 is thinking as well.

I clicked on the Abbey Road Chamber Verb as well and there's some insight to settings for that kind of sound as well.

I need to go on You Tube to see if I can find something more than just a playing demo...

If you're doing the DAW thing, you might want to check out the Abbey Road plug ins from Waves, modeled off the actual gear. Regardless, it's an interesting read/watch to check out the product info and the videos.

http://www.waves.com/bundles/abbey-road-collection?gclid=CMnWkdyTwcoCFc6RHwodNa4Bgw#butch-vig-and-billy-bush-abbey-road-collection

stevel wrote:

Hexabuzz wrote:

This may offer some insight, as well as some setting ideas to translate over to the gear you're using:

https://robertkeeley.com/product/Memphis+Sun+LoFi+Reverb+Delay+ADT/

Yes, it does actually! In fact, this addresses some of the other issues in the other thread I made - they're calling their early reflections "pre-delay" too so I'm pretty sure that's what Line 6 is thinking as well.

I clicked on the Abbey Road Chamber Verb as well and there's some insight to settings for that kind of sound as well.

I need to go on You Tube to see if I can find something more than just a playing demo...