Very simple...it's a voting process. If enough people voted at a high enough position, they would get into the list.
The voting is done on this forum, but also directly to NSSR.
So all it means, that so far, other tunes got more votes.
Ran

The Scimitars

This is an interesting and fairly accurate observation, IMO. For some reason, the Challengers do not seem to be as revered as many of the other first-wavers. I'm going to tread very lightly here, as Randy's treasure trove of memories and documentation of the '60's SoCal surf scene is invaluable stuff, but here's my take: In one respect, the Challengers were a lot like the Ventures, inasmuch as they didn't have a lot of original material, but were extremely polished and prolific, and churned out tons of albums featuring their versions of the hits of the day. Their sound was not unlike the Ventures too, IMO. Melodic and polite, without a really aggro reverbed guitar sound. I got to know Richard Delvy a little bit when we interviewed him for Pounding Surf! He was a really savvy guy, and even as a kid was looking for every angle to make it in the music biz. I think by design, the albums were made to sound as commercial and professional as possible. It sounds funny, but I think they may be victims of their own success in terms of their place in the pantheon of first-wave surf stars. When I think of my favorite early stuff, with notable exceptions (Astronauts) it's the primitive and low-fi vibe, the unabashed amateurism, the garage band joy of new, loud music being played by kids for kids, THAT'S the stuff that really shoots me up, and inspired me to play guitar in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I love the Ventures (and the Challengers!), and am not in any way impugning their legacy or downplaying their success (which speaks for itself), but I see the Challengers more in the vein of a lot of those Wrecking Crew surf albums that came out under a dozen different names (heck, half of them probably WERE the Challengers!) in the '60's. For myself, and I suspect a lot of others on this forum, we tend to gravitate towards the DD/Messina/Larry Weed/Eddie Bertrand sound, all of whom got the BIG sound played with abandon, doing mostly stuff they wrote themselves.

This is just my opinion, I could be wrong.

reventlos wrote:

This is an interesting and fairly accurate observation, IMO. For some reason, the Challengers do not seem to be as revered as many of the other first-wavers. I'm going to tread very lightly here, as Randy's treasure trove of memories and documentation of the '60's SoCal surf scene is invaluable stuff, but here's my take: In one respect, the Challengers were a lot like the Ventures, inasmuch as they didn't have a lot of original material, but were extremely polished and prolific, and churned out tons of albums featuring their versions of the hits of the day. Their sound was not unlike the Ventures too, IMO. Melodic and polite, without a really aggro reverbed guitar sound. I got to know Richard Delvy a little bit when we interviewed him for Pounding Surf! He was a really savvy guy, and even as a kid was looking for every angle to make it in the music biz. I think by design, the albums were made to sound as commercial and professional as possible. It sounds funny, but I think they may be victims of their own success in terms of their place in the pantheon of first-wave surf stars. When I think of my favorite early stuff, with notable exceptions (Astronauts) it's the primitive and low-fi vibe, the unabashed amateurism, the garage band joy of new, loud music being played by kids for kids, THAT'S the stuff that really shoots me up, and inspired me to play guitar in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I love the Ventures (and the Challengers!), and am not in any way impugning their legacy or downplaying their success (which speaks for itself), but I see the Challengers more in the vein of a lot of those Wrecking Crew surf albums that came out under a dozen different names (heck, half of them probably WERE the Challengers!) in the '60's. For myself, and I suspect a lot of others on this forum, we tend to gravitate towards the DD/Messina/Larry Weed/Eddie Bertrand sound, all of whom got the BIG sound played with abandon, doing mostly stuff they wrote themselves.

This is just my opinion, I could be wrong.

I think you are quite on the mark here, Matt, with respect to The Challengers. I love them too even if they were in a different bag morphing more and more polite and MOR. However,I think the polite thing was different with the Ventures. They went in a sort of reverse route. Their early Fender years never got more energetic than WDR or Lullaby of the Leaves. It is also true that The Ventures never adopted the aggressive reverb sound. They were ten years too old to have that wonderful youthful wild abandon of so many early '60's surf bands. However, they moved from their moderate Fender years to a most unique and original aggressive sound of their own with the over-driven Mosrite guitars. It was a sound that we could never imagine the Shadows, for example, adopting. I think that edgy sound had a significant role in their ability to put instrumental rock records in the charts well into the British Invasion years.
And you were trying so hard to tread lightly! -Marty

"Hello Girls!"

Last edited: Dec 27, 2015 22:19:29

I was just thinking about the Challeners yesterday after seeing one of
Randy's posts on FB. I was thinking that I have 2/3rds of the cds available and I should get the other ones. Then I thought they are tame
And I never listen to them. I agree with Matt that the younger wilder stuff is what lights my fire.

Jeff(bigtikidude)

Nokie wrote:

However, (The Ventures) moved from their moderate Fender years to a most unique and original aggressive sound of their own with the over-driven Mosrite guitars. It was a sound that we could never imagine the Shadows, for example, adopting. I think that edgy sound had a significant role in their ability to put instrumental rock records in the charts well into the British Invasion years.

I thought it was unique that all it took to turn The Ventures into The Ventures 2.0 was moving the bass player into the lead guitar spot. That was a real boost without a change in personnel. And Nokie loved experimenting with pedals and the band wrote songs based around them--2000 lb. Bee, Pedal Pusher. They had arguably the technically best player the instro scene produced.

In the early 1960's there were dozens of surf music cover bands playing dances every weekend in SoCal. We all wanted to hear and dance to the same songs, so they all covered the same songs. Some bands like the Challengers rose above the field by recording albums essentially covering the surf hits. So, for some, all you needed to buy was one LP and you had all the hits. This was cheaper than buying a lot of LPs by the original bands just for one or two hit songs. An important exception was Dick Dale's Surfer's Choice on which every track was popular for those of us that showed up at the Rondezvous and Harmony Park Ballroom each weekend.

Happy Sunsets!

The first Challengers LP I nabbed was "The Challengers" (Vault LP 100). It was the second surf album I purchased after "Surfbeat '80" (Jon & the Nightriders) in that same year, 1980. The Challenger's album was an excellent introduction to the first wave as they faithfully covered many of the key surf/instro tracks of the era. I still remember hearing the low rumble of the first track - "Bulldog" - coming out of my console stereo. That was a great thrill.

"Hello Girls!"

Last edited: Dec 28, 2015 13:05:59

Sonichris wrote:

I agree with Matt and Marty 100%. But, I also wonder why K-39 isn't part of that list. It's a cool song that is smack dab in the surf genre, unlike several other songs on the list. And, It's a bit better than several surf tunes that did make the list.

Yikes, K-39 didn't make it?! That is definitely an oversite. It has been covered by many of the 2nd and 3rd wave bands.

"Hello Girls!"

JakeDobner wrote:

To me, they are just a cover band. Recording tame versions of good songs.

+1, what Jake said. I was thinking exactly the same thing, he beat me to it. They were a good, but not great band of their era, IMO.

Jack Booth
(aka WoodyJ)

The Mariners (1964-68, 1996-2005)
The Hula Hounds (1996-current)
The X-Rays (1997-2004)
The Surge! (2004, 2011-2012)
Various non-surf bands that actually made money (1978-1990)

Last edited: Dec 28, 2015 15:00:19

I'm gonna throw this out there, I thought the Challengers were super boring until I got a vinyl copy of one of their records. Much more energetic than any of the CDs I had obtained, felt like I finally "got it".

That said, they're far from my favorite 60's instro band, and they don't have enough specialness to them that I would expect them to be somebody else's.

Storm Surge of Reverb: Surf & Instro Radio