IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10331
southern Michigan
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Posted on Jan 15 2009 08:31 PM
DannySnyder
Ivan, your style is a bit more forgiving as (I think) you don't have your dwell up very high.
Danny, I use 6-6-6 on almost all songs. Here and there I'll drop the mix down to 4 (usually the ballads or more melodic songs). So, you're incorrect about that.
Perhaps the ideal small gig amp for you is a Vibroverb like Ferenc plays. Take out the 10" speakers and put in a single 15". That brownface vibrato is a dream and once you have your Gomez, you're going to wish your smaller amp had the same circuit.
I think you might be on to something there. At least put a 12" in there. I've never really agreed with 10" speakers, they just don't sound right to my ears....
— Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
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eddiekatcher
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2778
Atlanta, GA
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Posted on Jan 15 2009 10:31 PM
The Twin Reverb amps have more gain than your 64 Showman has. Mostly it's the result of the extra stage that drives the reverb send and recovery. In addition, the Showman's vibrato channel has less gain than it's normal channel because some of the vibrato channel's signal is always shunted through the vibrato circuit.
That can be eliminated by putting a switch in the circuit to disconnect the brown wire from the vibrato pot. So, if you do the math here you'll find out that if both amps are doing what they are supposed to, the vibrato channel in the Twin will have way more gain than the vibrato channel in the Showman. I seldom use the vibrato channel on my blackface Bandmaster or Showman amps.
I'm not much for playing quiet. I actually play better when my amp is pushing me. Like the saying goes: "Nothing succeeds like excess." With mighty Sticks, Richard and Mitch really cooking, trying to play out of a Deluxe Reverb on stage would be like taking a knife to a gun fight.
I used one for years in my Top-40 bands but it was seriously humiliated by my Jazzmaster when I chucked the Top-40 for Surf in '96. I had a similar experience with the '93 1-12 Concert amp, GREAT amp, just not enough umph.
ed
— Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?
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eddiekatcher
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2778
Atlanta, GA
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Posted on Jan 15 2009 10:38 PM
Ruhar, try raising the pickup height in your guitar some. See what that does to your sound. You may find that your sound gets more urgent before your amp gets too loud.
I "chase my pickup height" on my lead pickup for almost every different amp I play out of. I'm like Casey, I want it to be "clean" but compressing and just..................almost over the edge. Right there to where it starts to sing.
ed
— Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?
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Ruhar
Joined: Jun 21, 2007
Posts: 3909
San Diego, CA
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Posted on Jan 15 2009 10:44 PM
DannySnyder
Just a thought Ryan, have you ever tried a bit of distortion pedal through your showman? Maybe a tubescreamer set low, just to get a growl going. May be a lot cheaper than buying another vintage amp.
Danny, my Tubescreamer days are over I think 
When I was in Surf Report I never turned that thing off.
Actually, my Jazzmaster sounds good at lower volumes through the showman. However, my strat won't wake up until the volume reaches 7. I'm still scratching my head on getting a decent sound with that setup.
— Ryan
The Secret Samurai Website
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DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11077
Berkeley, CA
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Posted on Jan 16 2009 12:42 AM
IvanP
DannySnyder
Ivan, your style is a bit more forgiving as (I think) you don't have your dwell up very high.
Danny, I use 6-6-6 on almost all songs. Here and there I'll drop the mix down to 4 (usually the ballads or more melodic songs). So, you're incorrect about that.
Aha! Don't the reissues go up to 12? Mine goes to 10, thus it's the equivalent of my tank on 5  seriously, the effect of an amps distortion on reverb can be very pleasant and appropriate to certain styles, and I think Ivan's is one such style.
— Danny Snyder
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
I am now playing trumpet with Prince Buster tribute band 'Balzac'
Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party
Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF
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TropicsHenri
Joined: Jan 14, 2009
Posts: 5
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Posted on Jan 16 2009 06:09 AM
WaimeaBay
wait, I am confused. I thought the RI is a 65, which would make it modeled off a blackface era amp?
The RI's are modelled on Blackface era amps but they use different/ similar components to originals and PCB's instead of point to point wiring. I'm sure there are other differences but those are definitely a couple of the main ones.
One of the reasons I'm interested in a Silverface is the point to point. The Silverfaces seem like quite afforable all tube, point to point handwired amps. Amps like this are generally the most realiable are easier to modify.
When you start dealing with PCB's, it tends to get a lot trickier. I'm not very technically experienced when it comes to these issues but some friends of mine who are always say all tube, point to point.
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zak
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Posts: 2728
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Posted on Jan 16 2009 08:24 AM
This post has been removed by the author.
Last edited: Sep 23, 2009 21:34:36
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TropicsHenri
Joined: Jan 14, 2009
Posts: 5
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Posted on Jan 16 2009 10:08 AM
My bad! You learn something new everyday:
"In truth, this kind of circuit is extremely rare. It is most commonly seen today in amps made by Matchless, Bad Cat, and Star, and in some vintage amps from Gibson, Valco, and very early Fender models."
From http://www.guitarplayer.com/article/all-about-point/feb-08/33533
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zak
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Posts: 2728
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Posted on Jan 16 2009 10:31 AM
This post has been removed by the author.
Last edited: Sep 23, 2009 21:37:30
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Jan 16 2009 10:52 AM
Let it be known that Zak is not a wiring bigot.
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synchro
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 4559
Not One-Sawn, but Two-Sawn . . . AZ.
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Posted on Jan 16 2009 04:09 PM
zak
Personally I don't buy the "inferiority" angle of the eyelet board construction, not if it is done properly. What people complain about is that the vulcanized cardboard boards can absorb moisture, become overly conductive, and cause a "ticking" effect which makes people go nuts tearing their tremolo circuit apart. Fender treated the boards with wax to minimize this effect, and that created its own set of problems (melted wax everywhere). Of course eyelet boards which have absorbed humidity will warp, sometimes quite drastically, causing broken solder joints.
Interesting to note that all my "cheapo" 50s and 60s amps (Supro/Valco, Danelectro/Silvertone) use true point to point construction where the leads are carefully stretched from component to component without a trace of loose wiring anywhere.
Back when I was in High School (High School was experimental back in those days, they had just invented the numbers 10 - 12) we were taught to do true point-to-point wiring. In Electronics class we built a little tube radio that I wish I still had today. Point-to-point is nice but lead-dressing/noise problems are always a concern. When I did my first PCB kit I was astounded by how much easier it was to work with (but this doesn't acount for repairs).
— The artist formerly known as: Synchro
When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.
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SixStringSurfer
Joined: Sep 23, 2014
Posts: 1433
Memphis, TN
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Posted on Dec 03 2015 05:43 PM
I thought it would be appropriate to post my review in this thread, since I sold my Deluxe Reverb RI to buy a '65 Twin Reverb RI. I loved the Deluxe, but it broke up way to early for me. I like to have that loud, clean, classic surf rock sound.
Anyway, I bought a used TR RI from Guitar Center, and when I went there to try it out, it not only had rust on it, but it sounded awful. The speaker was blown, and overall it was just a dud. I made them order me another amp.
The second one was much better, it looked decent and sounded pretty good. I wasn't worried about cosmetics all that much, because I knew I was going to get a custom cabinet made for it. Anyway, I wanted to have an amp tech check it out for me to see what kind of condition this thing was really in. I did a search for someone local and found a website called TubeAmpRepair.com.
I thought I would give this guy a shot since he seemed to do this because he truly enjoyed it, and was not in it for the money. Long story short, the more he dug into the amp, the more problems he found. Other than the obvious cheap caps, one of the resisters was burnt, and also something about Fender having undersized some resistor values in the amp (no idea what this means to be honest). The biggest problem IMO was in the tremolo system.
I had asked him to slow down the tremolo for me, because even when the knob was turned to 1, it was still too fast for my taste. I like a really slow, pulsating tremolo sound. Anyway, one of the previous owners had used some screws that were too long and when they drilled into the cabinet, it damaged the tremolo system. After about two and a half weeks, the amp was ready for pick up. He had corrected all the issues and installed my new cabinet for me, and now it is time to go home and test this baby out!
What can I say, when I plugged my reverb tank and guitar into it and started playing Pipeline, it blew me away! The amp sounded absolutely amazing, much better than what it did before. The tremolo on level 1 is super slow, but when turned up to 9 (for some reason 10 cuts it off) it is very fast. Also, it seems to have even more clean headroom than it did before. He adjusted the bias for the cleanest headroom possible (again, no idea what that means, it's all Greek to me).
The bottom line, Scott is one heck of an amp tech! He really knows his stuff, and he is a perfectionist when it comes to drilling holes and doing cosmetic stuff. I couldn't be happier with the sound or the look. Also, he put up with and answered all my dumb questions. Anyway, the point of this review is that the '65 Twin Reverb RI is an excellent surf amp. I honestly think it's the best combo amp out there for the classic early 60's surf sound. Thanks for reading everyone.
— MooreLoud.com - A tribute to Dick Dale. New EP Louder Than Life available on bandcamp and website. Taking guitar lessons from Jimmy Dale.
Last edited: Dec 03, 2015 17:48:59
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Mark2Bra
Joined: Sep 01, 2013
Posts: 248
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Posted on Dec 18 2015 03:49 AM
One other thing is that if the re-issues are using the same printed circuit board input jacks that the re-issue tank uses, it is an accident waiting to happen. Step on a cord plugged in and your amp may just quit working.
This.
I'm using a Super Champ X2, which was always plugged into my PC via USB.
I was once cleaning my desk and moved the PC without paying attention that I stretched the cable too much.
The result was that the USB socket broke apart from the PCB board , and it was impossible to resold it back with normal soldering pen.
Luckily I had a fried with the right tools for such a repair, but this incident really made me worried about those modern PCB boards.
Am I just a paranoid?
I guess the 68 Custom silver face amps that are sold now have PCB boards as well?
Last edited: Dec 18, 2015 04:07:42
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Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4537
Wisconsin
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Posted on Dec 18 2015 06:08 AM
SixStringSurfer wrote:
He adjusted the bias for the cleanest headroom possible (again, no idea what that means, it's all Greek to me).
Sometimes an improvement can be accomplished with a good set of matched output tubes that will take quite a bit of plate current. Tickled that your amp is now being enjoyed - it sure is pretty.
I'm curious if he mentioned what he did to get your tremelo rate down? Even when properly functioning they typically won't go as slow as many pedals. But I understand the pulsing (barely perceptible) effect you were after.
Mark2Bra wrote:
I guess the 68 Custom silver face amps that are sold now have PCB boards as well?
Yep.
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
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palo
Joined: Apr 23, 2012
Posts: 421
fresno california u.s.a.
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Posted on Dec 27 2015 09:46 PM
you might consider The fender blues deluxe it's
12 inch speaker with 40 watts all tube.
someone said it's a half a twin reverb.
it sounds good and is 789.00 i think.
the twin is heavier.
reverb is good but you may want a reverb tank but for rythm
i wouldnt think you need anymore reverb than the amp supplies.
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palo
Joined: Apr 23, 2012
Posts: 421
fresno california u.s.a.
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Posted on Dec 27 2015 09:49 PM
oh yeah don't confuse the fender blues jr with the blues deluxe.
the blues deluxe is much more everything.
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Dec 27 2015 09:57 PM
Oh man this is an old thread...
To update things, Fender now has a '68 line that is really fantastic. The Princeton and Vibrolux from this line are absolutely fantastic and should be on most people's lists.
you might consider The fender blues deluxe it's
12 inch speaker with 40 watts all tube.
someone said it's a half a twin reverb.
it sounds good and is 789.00 i think.
the twin is heavier.
reverb is good but you may want a reverb tank but for rythm
i wouldnt think you need anymore reverb than the amp supplies.
The Blues Deluxe is made by Fender, but is not a Fender-voiced amp. That is, you are going to get that classic clean tones associated with surf music. It isn't a bad amp, it is just a different amp. We had one of these in the 'Verb that we recorded some of our first EP with, used live extensively, and used as a bass amp. We don't own it anymore nor would we consider getting another.
What we would get instead, is the '68 Vibrolux RI, '68 Twin RI, '65 Super Reverb RI, and even the '59 Bandmaster(these can be had for cheap on the used market).
And regarding the reverb, yes it has a lot of reverb but onboard reverb does not nail that classic surf reverb. There is a lot of it, too much of it. It lacks controls that voices it for surf; less cavernous, more drip, and ability to mix dry signal in/out.
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SixStringSurfer
Joined: Sep 23, 2014
Posts: 1433
Memphis, TN
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Posted on Dec 28 2015 01:54 PM
Badger wrote:
SixStringSurfer wrote:
He adjusted the bias for the cleanest headroom possible (again, no idea what that means, it's all Greek to me).
Sometimes an improvement can be accomplished with a good set of matched output tubes that will take quite a bit of plate current. Tickled that your amp is now being enjoyed - it sure is pretty.
I'm curious if he mentioned what he did to get your tremelo rate down? Even when properly functioning they typically won't go as slow as many pedals. But I understand the pulsing (barely perceptible) effect you were after.
Mark2Bra wrote:
I guess the 68 Custom silver face amps that are sold now have PCB boards as well?
Yep.
Thank you for the compliment, even he said it's one of the prettiest amps he's ever seen. Concerning the tremolo, I am not exactly sure what he did to slow it down, but I do remember him saying that it was not a big deal. I will say that the intensity doesn't really kick in until 6-7, but does get pretty deep when I turn it up to 10. I may need to replace the tube in that particular slot.
Never the less, I went ahead and ordered a Demeter Tremulator for two reasons. One, I want to have a mobile tremolo for when I am not using my amp. Two, the Demeter has a wider range and a deeper intensity than any Fender blackface amp that I have heard.
One last thing directed toward Jake, if he doesn't mind me asking. I am curious as to why you didn't mention a '65 TR in your list of amps, what is it about them that you don't like? For me, this is the cleanest, best sounding combo surf amp around.
— MooreLoud.com - A tribute to Dick Dale. New EP Louder Than Life available on bandcamp and website. Taking guitar lessons from Jimmy Dale.
Last edited: Dec 28, 2015 13:55:47
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Dec 28 2015 02:00 PM
I didn't mention the '65 Twin Reverb because of the '68 Twin Reverb. Both are good amps! The '68s just have a slight edge for me.
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SixStringSurfer
Joined: Sep 23, 2014
Posts: 1433
Memphis, TN
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Posted on Dec 28 2015 02:08 PM
JakeDobner wrote:
I didn't mention the '65 Twin Reverb because of the '68 Twin Reverb. Both are good amps! The '68s just have a slight edge for me.
Thanks for clarifying. I know this sounds shallow, but I don't like the "silverface' look (prefer blackface) and that's the only reason I wouldn't buy a SF amp. Isn't that terrible of me?
— MooreLoud.com - A tribute to Dick Dale. New EP Louder Than Life available on bandcamp and website. Taking guitar lessons from Jimmy Dale.
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