I've heard both. It's no contest for me. The Commonwealth wins by a long shot. I have a Showman with the JBL D130F & the Commonwealth sounds pretty much identical. I've heard many Black Widows & they all sound thin & sterile to me.

Otto & The Ottomans
Kennedy Custom Guitars

dboomer wrote:

As far as the difference between 97.8 and 101 being "huge". The general rule of thumb is that a difference of 3dB is the smallest the human ear can detect ... So in the big scheme of things you may not hear any difference at all in overall loudness. Tone however is an entirely different matter.

I get your comments on sensitivity ratings; spot on. But do you have some citations about the change thresholds in terms of perception by the human ear? All things being equal, my understanding is that it takes twice the power to produce that measured 3dB change, and I find it hard to believe that a human doesn't detect much of anything between baseline & doubling their power. Not picking, I'd just be curious to see where that rule of thumb comes from. Maybe some ears are more "experienced" than others?

Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel

DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.

Last edited: Feb 15, 2015 15:58:34

Hey Wes

It may not seem intuitive because human hearing is not a linear function. In fact it takes about 10 times the power for most people to hear sound as twice as loud.

Read down in the Sound Pressure Level section. http://www.ou.edu/class/digitalmedia/articles/DigitalAudioPrimer2_TeamComBooks.htm

It's a bit more complicated because it depends on the frequency and the delta between two level. But the rule of thumb is that it takes a 3dB change for humans to detect a difference between two levels.

I don't have experience with the Black Widows, but I do have an Eminence Commonwealth. It doesn't sounds like JBL. Similar, but more "Hi Fi". Not a bad speaker.
xDelstar - did you already buy any of the speakers you are asking about?
You asked about a JBL as well.

The Scimitars

Bummer. eBay saved search is your friend. Hope the discussions here were not what held you back.
Anyway, JBL asking prices have been up lately, but deals can be had if you watch closely. If you want a JBL, get a JBL. I never pay more than $125-$150.
As for other speakers, if you can get them cheaper, get them. I wouldn't pay new Eminence price.

The Scimitars

Sent my amp guy up at Dave's in La Crosse a BOLO for a single 4-ohm D130. Somehow "stuff" just sometimes comes across his hands that never makes it to their web page.

Good luck!

Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel

DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.

eddiekatcher wrote:

Hey Badge........

How far are you from LaCrosse? I won the first heat of 250cc racing runabout at the APBA Pro National Championships in LaCrosse. If memory serves me correctly, it was in 1980! Long time back.

40 miles; when I say I'm going in to "the city" that's generally where I go. But I don't like cities; but I've been known to hangout & prowl Dave's for quite awhile.

As I remember they have some pretty fluky water there on the river. It has rock piles deep under the surface that cause weird cross currents. You are going in a straight line, then whammy, the boat wants to go sideways.

I bass fish that area and Pool 8 on the Miss. R and the Black River which joins it definitely have some weird currents.

Don't they brew Old Style beer there?

Hasn't been Old Style for many years, but City Brewery has it now and the giant 6-Pack is still down there on 3rd street.

I've talked to Dave a couple of times on the phone. He always had a nice collection of neat vintage amps in stock and seemed like a good guy.

If you haven't been up here since '80, you need to come on up if you can find an excuse. He's in a huge building & far from a 1-man operation now. You'd enjoy his upstairs "museum" (if anyone wants to know where all the blonde & brown tolex has gone). They are a first-class operation, with fine guitar & amp guys on site as well.

Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel

DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.

Can a 4 ohm JBL be reconed to a 4 ohm?

I can't play this thing! It's got no whammy bar!

Agree with k_t_r. Some research on this led to several steel fora on the net. One gent even frustrated enough looking for a 4-ohm that he was talking about just running an 8-ohm dummy load in the cab with a regular 8-ohm JBL. (Such a thing being about the size of a respectable venison sausage stick up in these parts.)

If that's really what you want, never hurts to keep looking. There was a pair of D130 8-ohms in the shop awhile back, sat there forever, then -poof- they were gone. Had been reconed but my amp guy said the job was good enough that they looked/sounded JBL. So serendipity can fall on you.

He did mention btw that he thought the Commonwealth was a pretty damned good speaker & got pretty close.

Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel

DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.

Yeah that wasn't my amp guy that suggested the parallel resistor; some guy on the steel forum was thinking about that. My thought on it, it's a piece of test gear for the bench. I suspect it would be sucking up more heat than a speaker that has a mechanism to dissipate it via electro-mechanical mojo.

Yeah, Winona's got a nice body further up the Mississippi (Pool 6). Your beer story made me laugh. Back when I was young & bulletproof I was racing Formula Ford in Germany and - because Germany had a law about associating tobacco products with sports - Philip Morris used Miller High Life as their vehicle for sponsoring several of us Americans. They used to bring that stuff to us in the pits and we'd have to smile & stack it up & he'd go away. Then we'd give it to the Germans who thought it a novelty and reach in the cooler for a Dortmunder Pils, Lowenbrau, or Heineken. That stuff in that clear bottle back then looked like a specimen that was supposed to be going to the lab.

Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel

DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.

Last edited: Feb 16, 2015 21:19:29