JObeast
Joined: Jul 24, 2012
Posts: 2762
Finknabad, Squinkistan
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Posted on Jan 24 2015 11:43 AM
I just purchased a Music Man 112 Sixty-Five (wattage numbers written in script, not numerals) and am very pleased with everything about the amp except the speaker that was put in it by a previous owner - a Celestion G12T-75, the Yngwie speaker. It's designed for the opposite of what I am trying to do, attenuating treble, spiking high mids and breaking up early to emphasize high-gain distortion. The Music Man may be a great platform for distortion pedals, but Leo designed them for neutral clarity and musical power.
Looking at MM catalogs online, I see the amp originally had an AlNiCo with an 18 oz. magnet (no brand mentioned). They write of the efficiency of AlNiCos as superior to ceramics, for instance how the latter get hot after heavy usage while AlNiCos stay cool, which speaks to efficiency of operation.
I suppose a JBL D120F would be the ultimate for getting this amp to surf. But everyone wants one of those now and the prices have skyrocketed. How does the E120 or the K120 stack up with the D120F? Both the E & K remain obscure compared to the D. Deservedly? Any impressions of these 'lesser' JBLs? I'd use my Altec 12" Alnico if it was here with me in Illinois but it's back in LA for now.
Weber Neo 12
Weber California Alnico
EV EVM 12L (or 12S?)
Anyone have experience with amps like this who knows the original speaker brand? Suggest a likely replacement that will yield good vintage tone?
Thanks for all the knowledge you've shared so far!
— Squink Out!
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JObeast
Joined: Jul 24, 2012
Posts: 2762
Finknabad, Squinkistan
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Posted on Jan 24 2015 08:03 PM
So no one has any recommendations? Oh, ok. 
— Squink Out!
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Noel
Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 8528
Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.
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Posted on Jan 24 2015 08:13 PM
JObeast wrote:
So no one has any recommendations? Oh, ok.
Well, I thought about pulling off the Music Man label from the back of one of the speakers in my 212, to see what's in it, but I thought better of it. I've honestly wondered the same thing if I needed to replace them. I'd go with whatever Eddie and Ivan use in their cabs.
— This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.
Last edited: Jan 24, 2015 20:13:52
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Noel
Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 8528
Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.
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Posted on Jan 24 2015 11:07 PM
According to the specifications listed here (http://www.music-man.com/amps.html) the reissue Music Mans all use this speaker: 12" DV Mark Neoclassic.
Interesting. There's a line of cabs using these speakers. http://www.dvmark.it/product_detail.php?id=65
— This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.
Last edited: Jan 24, 2015 23:19:11
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Ron
Joined: Sep 18, 2007
Posts: 73
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Posted on Jan 24 2015 11:48 PM
A112G 7823 is stamped in white letters on the rim of the speaker in my 112RP Music Man. A gold Music Man label is on the back of the magnet assembly.
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Noel
Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 8528
Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.
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Posted on Jan 25 2015 07:14 AM
From another thread:
fenderfan wrote:
Through all of my other amp transactions over the years, which includes every fine Fender model, the one amp that has stayed with me is my Music Man 1x12 65. Amazingly powerful and loud if you need it to be, with excellent reverb and trem, and works perfectly with pedals. It also shines with almost every speaker I put in it - currently, it is producing beautiful, deep tone with a Weber Michigan.
— This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.
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montereyjack66
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
Posts: 645
LA -ish
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Posted on Jan 25 2015 10:31 AM
I had an RD112 for about five years and stupidly let it go. As for speakers, I've had a great time using the Emenince "Swamp Thang". I was using it for Rockabilly and some surf type stuff and it was very up to the task. It is designed to be extra clean and handles the low end much better than most 12s. I like it enough I bought another one for my back up amp. FWIW.
mj
http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=swamp+thang+speaker&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=54536461836&hvpos=1t2&hvexid=&hvnetw=s&hvr
— mj
bent playing for benter results
Do not attempt to adjust your TV set.
https://www.facebook.com/Bass-VI-Explorers-Club-179437279151035/
https://www.facebook.com/Lost-Planet-Shamen-366987463657230/
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Noel
Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 8528
Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.
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Posted on Jan 25 2015 01:59 PM
I suppose this is a very bad time to mention that my second-favorite local guitar store (the one with the Super Reverb) has a very nice Music Man 112-65 just in. I'll ask after it if anyone's interested.
— This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.
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JObeast
Joined: Jul 24, 2012
Posts: 2762
Finknabad, Squinkistan
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Posted on Jan 25 2015 03:18 PM
Leo's copy writers made a big emphasis on how the amp was deigned to sound best driving an AlNiCo speaker. I respect Leo's design intention but I am very much tempted to go ceramic for economy's sake and respect props for Swamp Thang by notable players.
How about JBL K120 or E120, or JBL 2130 the "professional version" of the K?
Weber Californias come in both ceramic and AlNiCo, with huge difference in price.
Anyone ever play JBL Neodymium 12s, the 262H?
— Squink Out!
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da-ron
Joined: Jan 02, 2009
Posts: 1307
The original Plymouth, UK.
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Posted on Jan 27 2015 08:49 AM
I'd recommend an EVM 12L. I put the 15" version in a cab (it took some finding, but was cheap when I found it!) and it sounds awesome.
— http://thewaterboarders.bandcamp.com/
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JObeast
Joined: Jul 24, 2012
Posts: 2762
Finknabad, Squinkistan
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Posted on Jan 27 2015 02:20 PM
Da, Yes the EVM 12L is one of the most attractive options I am looking at. Thanks for recommending it.
Could you describe its performance - especially with heavy reverb?
I am really digging this amp's powerful clean tone, its thick bass and punch BUT the treble is rolled off by the Celestion 'Yngwie' speaker leaving me hungry for more 'bite' and shimmer.
I am spying on K120s, EVM 12Ls and Eminence Neodymium drivers on ebay.
— Squink Out!
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da-ron
Joined: Jan 02, 2009
Posts: 1307
The original Plymouth, UK.
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Posted on Jan 27 2015 04:59 PM
My EVM is a 15" version and I mainly use it with a S/F Showman since an affordable JBL is pretty much impossible to find over here. The EVM just sounds fantastic and can handle anything. It seems bullet proof. It's a heavy speaker and seems very neutral compared to the celestion I had in there before it. That speaker would get all boomy with a bit of bass, but the EVM keeps the bass nice and tight and still lets the highs through.
Not terribly good at describing speakers - but I know the EVM sounded infinitely better than the celestion!
Watch out for badly re-coned ones on eBay.
— http://thewaterboarders.bandcamp.com/
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da-ron
Joined: Jan 02, 2009
Posts: 1307
The original Plymouth, UK.
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Posted on Jan 27 2015 05:06 PM
Forgot to mention that MM used EVMs from stock so it may have had one originally. I've just bought a MM 110 50 that I'm looking forward to receiving any day now...I believe it has an EVM in it.
— http://thewaterboarders.bandcamp.com/
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JObeast
Joined: Jul 24, 2012
Posts: 2762
Finknabad, Squinkistan
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Posted on Jan 27 2015 05:29 PM
Da,
Sweet ! You have to report back on that amp.
The search is narrowing. I figure it's a toss-up between EVM 12L, SRO (any available), JBL K120 or Peavey Black Widow 1203-8 & Altec 417B. Players of more 'modern' guitar styles like to deride such speakers as 'stiff' &c., but I am noticing ( and I test very well in hearing) that brightness and clarity are lacking in many speakers generally considered the balls. Reverb is to blame!
— Squink Out!
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Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4536
Wisconsin
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Posted on Jan 30 2015 08:34 PM
Noel wrote:
From another thread:
fenderfan wrote:
Through all of my other amp transactions over the years, which includes every fine Fender model, the one amp that has stayed with me is my Music Man 1x12 65. Amazingly powerful and loud if you need it to be, with excellent reverb and trem, and works perfectly with pedals. It also shines with almost every speaker I put in it - currently, it is producing beautiful, deep tone with a Weber Michigan.
This was very good recall Noel (re-perusing this while doing search for an opinion on Eminence Red White Blues). But I recall a demo done by a member here that put what he thought was a Weber California up against his JBL (in Showman cab or something IIRC) and found the Weber wonderful. Then he went to order another one, turns out the original basket was mis-marked and what he'd liked all along was a Michigan.
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
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Noel
Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 8528
Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.
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Posted on Jan 30 2015 08:45 PM
Badger wrote:
Noel wrote:
From another thread:
fenderfan wrote:
Through all of my other amp transactions over the years, which includes every fine Fender model, the one amp that has stayed with me is my Music Man 1x12 65. Amazingly powerful and loud if you need it to be, with excellent reverb and trem, and works perfectly with pedals. It also shines with almost every speaker I put in it - currently, it is producing beautiful, deep tone with a Weber Michigan.
This was very good recall Noel (re-perusing this while doing search for an opinion on Eminence Red White Blues). But I recall a demo done by a member here that put what he thought was a Weber California up against his JBL (in Showman cab or something IIRC) and found the Weber wonderful. Then he went to order another one, turns out the original basket was mis-marked and what he'd liked all along was a Michigan.
I never heard of the Weber Michigan, so I looked it up. Wow!
https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/michigan12f.htm
— This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.
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Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4536
Wisconsin
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Posted on Jan 30 2015 08:54 PM
Noel wrote:
I never heard of the Weber Michigan, so I looked it up. Wow!
https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/michigan12f.htm
Yeah, I wish I could remember enough to search & find that demo.  Took awhile transpiring all the way to the full story but the generous contributor took the time to come back & say, "hold the phone guys, what I was really testing was..." etc. 15" of that same speaker is only $10 more.
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
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WoodyJ
Joined: Apr 05, 2006
Posts: 1547
Bethlehem, GA
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Posted on Jan 31 2015 10:21 AM
I'm a big fan of the D-series JBL and Weber California speakers. However, for loud, live performing, the Electro-Voice EVM's are pretty much in their own time zone.
I installed a 12L in a Deluxe Reverb reissue I used to have, and later, a pair in my '65 Bandmaster. The difference in headroom and tone as compared to the stock speakers in both amps was stunning.
Ebay is your friend regarding these. If you are patient, nice ones can be found for less than the cost of a new Weber. The pair I found for the Bandmaster (shown) are like new and were just $200 for both.
Funny thing, I've had the Bandmaster since it was new but I was never blown away by the way it sounded - until the EV's replaced the Oxfords that came in it. Seriously, it is a different animal now. Louder, cleaner later breakup, killer tone.
One downside: They are freaking HEAVY. IMO the upsides "outweigh" the downside.
— Jack Booth
(aka WoodyJ)
The Mariners (1964-68, 1996-2005)
The Hula Hounds (1996-current)
The X-Rays (1997-2004)
The Surge! (2004, 2011-2012)
Various non-surf bands that actually made money (1978-1990)
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Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4536
Wisconsin
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Posted on Jan 31 2015 10:26 AM
Oh, I remember that speaker well. Had one of Rivera's PR-II's that I gigged alot back when; great sounding amp and loud. For awhile I swapped in an EVM-12L and it became a great sounding amp and LOUD! and yeah, they're heavy. After schlepping a 1/2 stack & then a TR around though I still wanted my PR-II back. Really good sound reproducer that one.
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
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LeeVanCleef
Joined: Oct 05, 2011
Posts: 744
France
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Posted on Jan 31 2015 02:00 PM
Badger wrote:
But I recall a demo done by a member here that put what he thought was a Weber California up against his JBL (in Showman cab or something IIRC) and found the Weber wonderful. Then he went to order another one, turns out the original basket was mis-marked and what he'd liked all along was a Michigan.
Found the thread — it was a Weber Chicago 15" though, not a Michigan.
— Old punks never die... They just become surf rockers.
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