Wombat
Joined: Oct 13, 2011
Posts: 251
Byron Bay, Australia
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Posted on Oct 19 2014 11:08 PM
You name the mod or upgrade and I have done it! and it still sounds very average/flat. I want the think wet drip of the classic reverb tank!
Purchased new Fender 1963 ri reverb tank, it sounded flat so i have done the following mods/upgrades
- Tube swap to NOS 6k6
- C10 cap mod
- tried 3 pans (original, a mod and an autronics)
- tried the toothpick/wooden match in the transducer (at the end of the pan springs)
- Took it to my amp tech and he checked and serviced it
Ahh! I am going mad! I cannot think of anything else, any suggestions would be appreciated (before I give up on it)
— 'Surf Music Lasts Forever'
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Oct 19 2014 11:12 PM
Are you palm muting to get the drip? The drip doesn't just happen.
What amp and guitar are you using? What settings on the reverb unit do you usually try?
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Surfersaurus
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Posts: 352
Australia
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Posted on Oct 19 2014 11:16 PM
Hey mate, come and compare it to my original tank if you like, give me a call, Martin
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LittleKahunaCraig
Joined: Jan 09, 2008
Posts: 390
Orange County, CA
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Posted on Oct 19 2014 11:32 PM
Wombat, if this helps, a friend of mine had his tank retired point to point by this guy Alessandro. It sounds amazing. Here is an example of his rewired Fender Deluxe Reverb reissue...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fender-1965-Deluxe-reverb-handwired-blackface-PTP-ALESSANDRO-/231220398918?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35d5cf4b46
— Craig Skelly
Little Kahuna
www.littlekahunamusic.com
The Breakaways
The Curl Riders
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JObeast
Joined: Jul 24, 2012
Posts: 2762
Finknabad, Squinkistan
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Posted on Oct 19 2014 11:34 PM
Worse comes to worse, buy the Surfy Bear FET circuit board and stick it in the same cabinet. Heck, you could even put an A/B switch on the rig.
The Surfy Bear DRIPS!
— Squink Out!
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DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11077
Berkeley, CA
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Posted on Oct 19 2014 11:43 PM
I'm a firm believer of the pan being the main element that impacts how drippy the tank works. See if you can bring your tank over to someone who has a drippy one, and swap cables to hear how your tank sounds with their pan. Good luck!
— Danny Snyder
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
I am now playing trumpet with Prince Buster tribute band 'Balzac'
Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party
Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF
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SanchoPansen
Joined: Jan 04, 2011
Posts: 1588
Berlin L-Berg
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Posted on Oct 20 2014 01:40 AM
What Danny said! The magic is in the pan. You compared 3 'newer' pans and those tend to be a bit anemic. I found my best pan in a Bandmaster Reverb from the 70ies. I think 30+ years in a vertical position helped the pan to sound like it does.
— The Hicadoolas
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SaschaReynders
Joined: Dec 26, 2013
Posts: 251
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Posted on Oct 20 2014 02:30 AM
You mention you had it checked and serviced by your tech, I trust it he knows his way around a reverb tank? It may sound as a silly question and I sure mean no offense to your tech, but I had some issues with my tank as well a while ago (weak reverb and not much drip, even with all knobs maxxed out) and because of my move from Belgium to France I had to take it to a tech I had never worked with before. He checked and serviced it, put in new tubes, but I didn't notice much difference after I got it back. So I took a road trip to my usual tech and he quickly found 2 problems: the foam on the brake had started to disintegrate and there were bits and pieces of foam all over the springs, and on top of that the reverb driver transformator had all but broken down. He fixed it and ta-daa: drippy reverb in all it's glory  So much for the servicing by the other guy... I have a strong suspicion it was his first ever job on a tank, hence my question about your tech.
And like Danny says: the pan can make a world of difference. So yeah, try hooking up your unit to a pan that's proven it's "drippiness" and see what gives. Just don't give up on it yet, good luck with it, hope you get it fixed.
— "Duck Tape is like The Force: it has a light side and a dark side and it holds the universe together"
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Speedball-JR/151771678181829?fref=ts
https://twitter.com/SPEEDBALLJR
https://itunes.apple.com/be/artist/speedball-jr/id389972205
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Wombat
Joined: Oct 13, 2011
Posts: 251
Byron Bay, Australia
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Posted on Oct 20 2014 02:33 AM
Thanks for all the suggestions
Settings
Dwell 6
Mix 6
Tone 6
Palm mute only way to get drip
Tried turning up tone and gets more drip but starts to get harsh sound
Tied on Princeton, 64 Bandmaster and Deluxe RI
The only main type of pan I have not tried is the TAD (they are expensive to import and did not want to be disappointed again)
— 'Surf Music Lasts Forever'
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Wombat
Joined: Oct 13, 2011
Posts: 251
Byron Bay, Australia
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Posted on Oct 20 2014 02:38 AM
Thanks Sascha, although my amp tech (Vito) really knows amps, probebly the best around, It was hard to explain to him about 'the drip' I sort of got a blank stare . . . Not sure if he understood the sound I was aiming for. Maybe I could find another tech to look over
— 'Surf Music Lasts Forever'
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SanchoPansen
Joined: Jan 04, 2011
Posts: 1588
Berlin L-Berg
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Posted on Oct 20 2014 02:46 AM
Just a quick question: what guitar do you play?
— The Hicadoolas
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Wombat
Joined: Oct 13, 2011
Posts: 251
Byron Bay, Australia
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Posted on Oct 20 2014 02:48 AM
Play with Fender Strat Plus and Fender Jaguar RI
— 'Surf Music Lasts Forever'
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SaschaReynders
Joined: Dec 26, 2013
Posts: 251
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Posted on Oct 20 2014 03:26 AM
Wombat wrote:
The only main type of pan I have not tried is the TAD (they are expensive to import and did not want to be disappointed again)
After my tank was fixed and after reading much praise about the TAD pan, I installed one in my tank but I wasn't completely happy with it's sound. It's got an unbelievable amount of drip to it at high settings, but the reverb is HUGE, very cavernous. A bit too much of a good thing and difficult to dial in a sweet spot on the Dwell...anywhere above 4 the reverb was all over the place, anywhere below 3 the drip just didn't sound as it should to my ears. Of course this is just my personal experience with the TAD pan. I think I read somewhere in the forum here that they need some time to get broken in before they start sounding right, but I'm wondering if the fact that the TAD is a horizontal mount pan has got something to do with it. Maybe some of the experts here at SG101 could provide more insights on that ?
Anyway, my point being: I don't think a TAD would immediately be the way to go to solve your tank problems. Especially since you already tried an MOD pan, some say TADs are just re-branded MODs.
I ended up putting the original (US made) Accutronics back in my tank and it sounds better to me, much more controlable.
— "Duck Tape is like The Force: it has a light side and a dark side and it holds the universe together"
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Speedball-JR/151771678181829?fref=ts
https://twitter.com/SPEEDBALLJR
https://itunes.apple.com/be/artist/speedball-jr/id389972205
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SanchoPansen
Joined: Jan 04, 2011
Posts: 1588
Berlin L-Berg
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Posted on Oct 20 2014 03:44 AM
Wombat wrote:
Play with Fender Strat Plus and Fender Jaguar RI
Okay, I thought you might play something with high output - which is hard to control. But Strats and Jags should be easy to dial in.
Is it possible to get some soundclips? And did you replace the other tubes? They also have a noticeable impact on the tone.
— The Hicadoolas
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ncgalt1984
Joined: Nov 27, 2013
Posts: 235
Greenville, NC
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Posted on Oct 20 2014 08:21 AM
My tank has completely stopped working. It started cutting in and out on me during a couple shows (including Instro Summit) and now it is just dead. I'm having no luck finding anyone who can repair it for me. I've called every tech in eastern NC and no one has ever even heard of an outboard reverb tank.
And that includes the guy the Fender website recommends as a "Fender Certified Technician". Didn't even know what I was talking about.
— Kevin
The Out of Limits
www.facebook.com/theoutoflimitsband
https://theoutoflimits.bandcamp.com/
Last edited: Oct 20, 2014 08:24:01
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JObeast
Joined: Jul 24, 2012
Posts: 2762
Finknabad, Squinkistan
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Posted on Oct 20 2014 09:17 AM
Kevin- when you speak to the tech does he show any interest in educating himself about the device or not? Send a PDF of the schematic and tell him to research it online. If he seems dull, look elsewhere. It's not rocket science and solutions are at hand.
I was unhappy with the sound of my Gibson Reverb III and took it to a smart guy who fixed everything, but he didn't grasp the simplicity of the design and wanted to redesign the circuit! I gave up in him and took it axels town to a guy who calls himself the Rok Doktor and he simply recapped it. Sound was improved after that. But it went until I built a Surfy Bear FET Reverb that I found out how crucial the electro-acoustic element, the pan itself, is to the sound.
After quick assembly of the SB FET unit, I experienced a fat sound and drip I had never gotten before. After playing a while I noticed a harsh distortion only in the reverb signal. I did the epoxy thing on the coils of the Accutronics tank and shimmed the loose transformers. No real improvement. Spent $24 on a MOD pan shipped and problem solved.
I applied my experience with the SB FET reverb to the Gibson and epoxied & shimmed its tank as well and noticed improvement immediately in the reverb's Fidelity.
The upshot is, experimentation yielded insights that achieved success in problem solving. A reverb unit has two parts- electronic circuit and electro - acoustic pan. The latter is subject to wear and has a limited life while the circuit is robust and can be repaired any number of times that components go bad. The pan can be replaced for $20. I found that my old Accutronics pan was unsalvageable while the Gibbs pan in the Gibson unit still responded to 'therapy'. After spending $100 to recap the Gibson a free fix of the pan did more to restore its fidelity.
Fender units have foam rubber parts that can decompose and dampen the springs. All pans can sag after years of hanging - the transducers at the ends of the coils falling onto the frames around them. And the little trannies work loose horizontally. After a certain point they are unfixable as the acoustic mechanics they process no longer function.
— Squink Out!
Last edited: Oct 20, 2014 09:23:01
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Oct 20 2014 09:31 AM
Wombat wrote:
Thanks for all the suggestions
Settings
Dwell 6
Mix 6
Tone 6
Palm mute only way to get drip
Tried turning up tone and gets more drip but starts to get harsh sound
Tied on Princeton, 64 Bandmaster and Deluxe RI
The only main type of pan I have not tried is the TAD (they are expensive to import and did not want to be disappointed again)
6 - 6 - 6 is a big mistake. Every tank is so different, 6 - 6 - 6 is just a starting point. I'm like 4 - 5 - 7 on a Gomez.
Also, is your amp turned up? My tanks have always reacted better to a amp that is pushing.
Also, you get drip when palm muting which is very good. I personally don't get what I call drip any other time than palm muting. Drip doesn't just happen on sustained notes, you just get lots of reverb instead. Granted the reverb is wet sounding, but not drippy.
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ncgalt1984
Joined: Nov 27, 2013
Posts: 235
Greenville, NC
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Posted on Oct 20 2014 12:32 PM
JObeast, I believe the problem with my tank is the PCB. The input and output connectors are built onto the PCB. When I first started having problems I could wiggle my cables and it would cut in and out. Now it just doesn't work at all. I've read various places online that these jacks are known to be jinky.
I am not a techy kind of guy. I was foolish enough to think that a vintage reissue would actually be a vintage reissue and not just a fake modeler PCB. What I really want is to have the tank completely gutted and hand-wired from scratch like an actual vintage tank.
— Kevin
The Out of Limits
www.facebook.com/theoutoflimitsband
https://theoutoflimits.bandcamp.com/
Last edited: Oct 20, 2014 12:33:02
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LeeVanCleef
Joined: Oct 05, 2011
Posts: 744
France
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Posted on Oct 20 2014 02:09 PM
Wombat ― have you tried replacing the other tubes as well? That might be worth a try.
— Old punks never die... They just become surf rockers.
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Wombat
Joined: Oct 13, 2011
Posts: 251
Byron Bay, Australia
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Posted on Oct 20 2014 02:58 PM
Wombat ― have you tried replacing the other tubes as well? That might be worth a try.
I have replaced both pre and post tubes with several types NOS, it still sounds weak/average.
I am still thinking its the pan, I might try buying an old gibbs type pan (with the corret in and out impedance) as a final 'throw of the dice'
— 'Surf Music Lasts Forever'
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