Yes that was wild, and very good,
he is their leader for sure.

Jeff(bigtikidude)

ncgalt1984 wrote:

Good afternoon,

I did a search and couldn't find anything on this specific question so please forgive me if this is a re-post. We played a gig this weekend that, while rushed, went well. There were several bands back-to-back and, since we weren't micing our amps or drums, didn't use a sound guy. People seemed to enjoy our show but several said the bass was exceptionally loud and that the drums were hard to hear. I was standing in front of my Twin, which was cranked, so I had no way of really assessing what it would sound like out front.

We had tried to set our volumes before we left for the show because we knew there would be little to no time to get set up (9 bands played in 7 hours) so we were anticipating that we wouldn't have time for a sound check. Everything "seemed" balanced in the drummer's living room but that didn't translate to the acoustics of the venue very well.

Most of the gigs we play around Greenville will probably be similar in that there won't be a sound man to dial everything in for us. I'm wondering if anyone has experience using a sound meter/decibel meter to set the volume of instruments when playing with a drummer that isn't miced. Is that a potential solution for setting the bass and guitar amps to appropriate levels so as to not drown out the drums (for live performance and/or recording).

Sorry if this is a dumb question but I have so much going on when we play (my gear, running samples, playing, dealing with lights/video) that I'd really like to find the simplest solutions to getting set up. It seems that a decibel meter might be a solution. Has anyone tried this? Would you set everyone to the exact same level or have the guitar slightly higher since it is the "lead" (and by how much)?

Thanks,
Kevin

Did I read that right..you had a Twin cranked? If so that explains why the drums were inaudible. Fortunately for me I've been playing with the same band for over 20 years so we pretty much know when it sounds good. I've found that if it sounds good to us on stage it sounds good out front. We usually just mic the bass, kick drum and snare/hi hat and let the amps take care of themselves. Since I'm the only guitarist it's not hard to get the volume right. I play through an old Alamo Paragon Bass amp which I'm guessing is around 25-30 watts, so volume is not much of a problem in most gig situations.
I agree with having a music lover friend or another musician being out front at the beginning of the set to let you know how it sounds.

George

ImaDirtyTroll wrote:

DannySnyder wrote:

I usually single out someone I know in the audience before I start and ask them to let me know if we need to adjust anything.

How about the venue owner or manager? He is your real audience.

My guess is he or she would always have us turn down >

Danny Snyder

"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo

I am now playing trumpet with Prince Buster tribute band 'Balzac'

Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta

Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party

Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF

The other thing to remember is that the bass cab is somewhat Omni-directional like a sub. You can turn it away from the audience with a lot more leaway in volume.

Our drummer likes my cab pointed at him (sideways on stage) and everyone else can hear it just fine.

I will say it again though, With everyone mic'd up and put through the board/PA and using the amps laid out primarily as stage monitors, you can't go wrong.

Yes, that means purchasing a PA. You might as well, you would just blow that money on food and medicine anyway.

My band just finished a fund raiser at an outdoor venue (blueberry farm).

We are a five pieced with 6 piece gear (drummer and rhythm guitar player swap out on drums and keys and guitar)

stage was 160 square feet. five, 4x8 sheet of ply; three for the guitars up front and 2 for the drum riser.

We have a QSC 1,000 watt powered PA with powered subs. Everything goes through the mixing board (Mackie EFX 12) and everything goes out the PA. Amps on stage are tilted and aimed mostly sideways for stage monitors and to avoid exploding people's heads in the audience.

Drums: the entire kit was mic'd bass, snare, one mic for the upper toms and 1 mic for the floor tom, two overheads for the cymbals (note on overheads: the audience can hear everything you say on stage) The drum mic go through the drummer's individual board then he give me two (left and right) signals to go into the main board. I control master volume at the board, he controls individual drums gains and volumes.

it sounds complicated but it really isn't. the drums sounded sweet.

Bass: 450 watt amp/cab went behind the drummer so bass player and drummer could hear it. Bass amp DI into the board.

Rhythm Guitars; Both amps on the side of the stage mostly pointed sideway and way up so it goes right by the two rhythm guitarists heads.

My lead guitar amp: Same as above sideways and pointed at my head.

All guitar amps mic'd out front (SM57's) and sent to the board.

Two floor monitors with a main mix coming out of one of the tops. I like to hear what the audience is hearing. We have two aux sends from the board for individual monitor mixes but it adds a level of complexity we didn't have time for at this gig.

We do several vocal songs so the monitors are absolutely key. Even without vocal songs good monitors with a main mix lets you know what the audience is hearing and it sounds better on stage, more like rehearsal.

Worked great. Only issue was we only have two Eon 15G's for monitors and the drummer really needs his own. I told him he gets to use the head phones for that Keith Moon look. Or- he gets to throw down on his own monitor. Tip: A good solid state guitar amp works great as a monitor.

After all is mic'd us and pumped out, we have our trusted musician friends help us fine tune it during sound check or on the fly before they get too drunk.

We did two sets 10 songs each for 2 35 minutes sets. It went great.

RobC

Again, practice like you play!

RobC wrote:

Almost forgot:

Boost pedal is also key for solos and for differing gains on different pickups. Makes a huge difference. Audiences want to hear searing solos so let it rip with a 20 to 40 percent increase in volume.

I work in a band with up to 3 guitarists at once (1x 12string acoustic and 2 of us playing electric 6 string). Anytime my co-guitarist takes a lead, I ease-off my guitar volume and will palm-mute any chugging chords as appropriate to the song. The lead shouldn't be screaming overtop of an already full-volume band...if anything other than a small boost is required for it to be intelligible then something else is amiss...and some pedals like a Tube Screamer - set only as a boost - will accentuate the mids which automatically makes it cut-through all the while staying clean. It will warm-up the input of the amp which might start to create some break-up depending on the degree of headroom remaining.

As far as a group doing its own sound, since it is a group and the group will benefit if the audience is hearing a good mix, everyone chips in for one of your guitarists/bassist to have a wireless unit. That person can roam around various places of the venue and check for where the "beams" and the drop-outs are, along with assessing the overall mix.
This is how my band has done it for the past decade.

Lorne
The Surf Shakers: https://www.facebook.com/TheSurfShakers
Vancouver BC Canada

Last edited: Oct 07, 2014 15:51:41