ZZero,
According to you - "No one on this forum remembers the first tube amps--they were nasty little things". Broad (inaccurate) generalization there, zzero.
I beg to differ. I certainly remember them. I even built one - one of the old Heathkit TA-19 2x12 combos or whatever it was called. It was a glorified distortion box. But I learned a few things about electronics and a few things about economics - as in you generally get what you pay for.

Another SS amp I have is a Yamaha 4x12 stack with the GB-100 head. With a Mosrite, it closely mimics the "Ventures Live on Stage" Sound.
It's never given me a problem. Mike Stern uses a 2x12 combo version on the road. So it can't be all bad.
J Mo'

Ok. Electric guitars and their amplifiers were invented in the 1920's.
The designs were not perfected for years. Rickenbaker offered the first unit for commercial sale in what, 1931 I think. I was told by pro musicians that actually used 1930's tube amps that the first tube amps were nasty and unreliable. I was told this in the early 1970's by 60 and 70 year old pro players that actually used the first tube amps in the 1930's. First hand witnesses that used the things back in the day. Broad (inaccurate) generalization? I don't see it.

I had a late 1960's silverface Deluxe in the late 60's and early 70's.
Probably the best amp I ever had. Still regret the day I sold the burned out chassis and box. That was the 3RD time I blew it up.
What was the approximate birthday of your deluxe?

Enjoying the surf,sun and sand!!

Last edited: Sep 27, 2014 23:37:06

zzero wrote:

OK--I did some research on this. Ric's first electric and amp came out in 1931, not 1925 as I posted. the electromagnetic pickup was designed in 1925. So my timeline is 6 years off. Still...

Role count, how many of us were around in '31? I know I was...

In all seriousness, zzero makes a great point. Not that we didn't try some of the earliest amps - But that they really kind of sucked, and really didn't get much better until the fifties or sixties. Thing is, those amps are not "good" by today's standards - A lot of people are just stuck on the oldschool sounds because that's what sounds good to them - And that's totally okay! I will admit there's something very special about blasting open chords through an old showman.

However, there is something much more special about low B djenting and dissonant harmonics through a good rack mounted amp modeler.

IMO.

Last edited: Sep 27, 2014 23:47:47

zzero wrote:

Yes sir, that is exactly what Leo was doing. He was using the technology available at the time--his time.
My question is why is soft tube clipping more pleasing to the human ear. is it a learned behavior?? or a natural behavior? Why do some people prefer hard clipping? Who decided that soft clipping was preferable to
hard clipping? Just asking!

By 'soft-clipping' they mean that the onset of clipping in a tube is gradual (whereas the onset of clipping in a transistor is abrupt. The abrupt clipping tends to produce harsh 'gritty' noises in the overdriven signal of a transistor). See images below for tube clipping

Plate clipping
https://flic.kr/p/p9g3rw

Grid current clipping
https://flic.kr/p/pqKP8Z

Transistor clipping (entry to, and exit from, clipping is sharp with faint jagged peaks at the transition point, resulting in an instantaneous and unmusical gritty overtone during overdriven conditions)

He who dies with the most tubes... wins

Surf Daddies

Last edited: Sep 28, 2014 01:06:54

LeeVanCleef wrote:

JohnnyMosrite wrote:

Another SS amp I have is a Yamaha 4x12 stack with the GB-100 head. With a Mosrite, it closely mimics the "Ventures Live on Stage" Sound.
It's never given me a problem. Mike Stern uses a 2x12 combo version on the road. So it can't be all bad.

These old SS Yamahas are truly awesome. They're built like tanks and sound fantastic clean. They blow a good number of modern tube amps out of the water in my opinion. They're the pinnacle of solid state amplification.

A friend of mine was just lamenting the other day about selling his old Yamaha 2x12 combo.
I think all this comes down to supply and demand. Most guitarists want vintage tube sound, so most manufacturers are going to make tube amps( I'm referring to the higher end of amps.).
Roland, Yamaha and Ampeg have made some pretty good SS's. But most people with 800 bucks and up in their pockets are going to buy tubes.
Quilter has definitely upped the ante in solid state though.
For someone like Surfer Joe that plays with a lot of other bands. You can put a Quilter block and a Topanga in a backpack, grab your Jazzmaster and hop the train to anywhere in Europe. As long as there is a cab to plug into when you get there.
The downside I see of high end SS is, if it breaks it's a lot harder to find a tech to fix it.

Surfskater--dude, you are so right about getting a SS amp repaired. You can't find many repairmen trained or willing to work on SS. SS is starting to mean "disposable".

Enjoying the surf,sun and sand!!

Cool! reminds me of King Crimsom

Enjoying the surf,sun and sand!!

Just found and uploaded a similar riff I did at one point:

https://soundcloud.com/thekidforever/enamor-wip

Comes at about 1:14.

Edit: Wow, this is bad! This was the first version I sent to my bandmate for help with the writing? Just an mp3, but this was before I had done any mixing at all, lol, and only a little bit of it was written. I'll need to find the Garageband file and upload it later on so it's slightly more bearable, haha.

IMO.

Last edited: Sep 28, 2014 17:57:38

Real amps and 'fake' amps both have their place. They are two different instruments.

Blind tests like that are so deceiving, (same goes for many audio related issues), they'll give you no more than an impression, if it's in the ballpark or not.
Compressed audio is NEVER acceptable for comparison. Not to mention the rest of the audio chain at the listener side.
IMHO the real and only test for any equipment would be to play it like it was intended, in the same context that it was meant to be used.
No other way to get the feel of the device, the response to dynamics, the subtle compression/clipping, which in turn affects the emotional impact, the way you approach to playing it, and eventually the liveliness of the result.

A good example of that would be digital amp modeling. Even 10 years ago, the demos sounded great. A/B tests seem almost identical. It has improved immensely since then. So then again, why do I feel like crying whenever my guitar signal get translated to 01100001111100111001100110111001110000111100111100111011? *even with 1ms latency.)

Anyway, nothing against SS as a principle. I'd also love to try a Quilter.