JohnnyMosrite wrote:

All my other amps are tube - Sunns for EL34, Fenders for 6L6, and Bedrock for EL84(which knocks the hell out of any Vox AC30 I've ever heard). They're all tube, all point to point wiring, all with top end components.

Can you tell me more about your Bedrock? I own a 652 myself. I don't have a Vox to compare it to, but it does sound great.

Old punks never die... They just become surf rockers.

Well I proudly own a 62 double showman, 2x15, with a 63 reverb tank. Said that this THE BEST AMP EVER BUILT BY MAN (if you ask me what is a real amp, THIS is), I own Fender Twins, Supersonic, Bassman 50 1972, Bassman 100T (new stuff simply AMAZING), cabinet 1x15 with JBL speaker.. blah blah blah...

BUT

I also own a Quilter tone block head.
My friends, if I have to play in perfect conditions and/or in my living room, yes - tube amps have no comparison.
But touring? 20 shows in a row? loading/unloading a 2x15 cab, showman head... I do it... but... well... I cannot say Quilter sounds bad. Frankly, it sound very close to a showman.
Don't look at the sound only, on stage the most important thing is the PRESENCE, the clarity, to hear yourself well, to year the other musicians well. You might have the most beautiful amp, but if the room is shit, your sound will be shit too. It is a balance of frequencies.

So, saying one thing is better than the other: well, it depends where you are and what you do.

Power: you are not right here. Solid state can be as powerful or more powerful than tubes. In facts, the Quilter tone block is more powerful than a double showman. The sound CHANGES with the cabinet you use, the guitar you use, the reverb you use.

I use nothing. guitar - reverb - amp. not even the tuner in the middle.
I cannot say Quilter sounds bad. Sorry if you don't believe that.

On a big stage? Take last week at Melkweg in Amsterdam for the NSSF. I play the showman of Phantom Frank with a reverb pedal. I KNEW the tank would have make the sound more messy, especially with 5 stage monitors. Better keep the sound clean. If I had to choose in THAT occasion, I would have preferred to use the Quilter head.
But the next day with no amplification, more direct sound from the amp, yes showman has no comparisons.

Lorenzo "Surfer Joe" Valdambrini
(www.surfmusic.net)

JohnnyMosrite wrote:

Lee,
My Bedrocks are the BC-50 combo models. It's three 12AX7s and four El84s into 2x12 speakers. They have gain, volume, and master controls. There is a clear and overdrive channel. The 'voice' - as Jake D puts it - is that early sweet Beatles, Hollies, Shadows sound. The tube complement mirrors a Vox AC30 but the sound is way better and tighter to my ears. I just use the clear setting. A Mosrite thru it makes a Fender sound like a plastic ukelele. I also own a BC75 that absolutely burns the two EL34s in it (almost 500 volts at the plate). What a great use of my electricity. It is LOUD! It's a bit too "Marshall-ly" for my tastes. My amp tech and I are looking into maybe putting in KT88s in place of the El34s. Maybe the sound might clean up a bit better.
Bedrocks are one of the best deals out there. They flew as an early boutique amp manufacturer in the early nineties - Top notch components and cabinetry. I picked up mine for between $400-$500 each. A piece of Taiwanese or Chinese junk costs at least that much today. A Bedrock amp would cost $1500-$2000 if it were made today. With being frugal, I always enjoy a bargain. You just have to look where no one else does for good equipment.
J'Mo

Thanks Johnny. My 652 is from the same series and apparently it's very close (if not downright similar) to your BC-50s. I bought it used as my first tube amp and I still own it some 10 years later.. It sounds spectacular but has a few issues ― I suppose it could do with a checkup. I'm not sure what defines a "fake" amp, but one thing is certain: this one is 200% real It's definitely PCB though, not PTP.

http://bedrock27.tripod.com/bedrockamp/id9.html

Old punks never die... They just become surf rockers.

image

IMO.

PrestonRice wrote:

image

Ha! Fusion blues lead Surf!

Ok. I can see it's a rack unit which puts it beyond my expertise. couldn't make out a lot of the writing on it. so I assume you plug speakers in and go? I messed with a few rack units at the old Strings and Things music store in Memphis but like I say, they are beyond me. they sounded good but were too complicated for me. so it's 20 years later and I'm sure the fancy rack units have evolved dramatically. KOOL!!!

Back in the 90's I had a Hughes and Kettner Attax 100. 1-12, 100 watts, sealed back and 3 channels. didn't surf well but it had the best crunch channel I ever heard. SS too, played it loud and proud for 3 or 4 years. built like a brick shithouse. tough little amp. simple and stupid like me.

Enjoying the surf,sun and sand!!

Last edited: Sep 26, 2014 22:41:59

JohnnyMosrite wrote:

I have enough computers in my life.

Amen.

I played with solid state amps for years and the failure rate was ridiculous (which gravitated me towards point to point wired tube amps). The thought of spending ridiculous amounts of money on vintage amps which would require component maintenance and cleaning regularly kept me from buying the real deal. And the ability to purchase damn close recreations at half the price with new components and a great life expectancy has sealed the deal with me on clones. And like Jake, I'll take any generated heat in the winter to save on the power bill. Between the Gomez amps I own and a '59 Tweed Bassman clone from a local builder, I couldn't be happier with the craftsmanship and reliability of a hand built amp that someone has taken time with like Fender would with a Custom Shop offering, and then some. Knowing that I can always turn it on and expect the same sound time and time again has a level of importance to me, and I wouldn't change a thing with the amps I play through now. To each his own of course, but I'll never purchase a solid state amp again.

When I went to technical school for a year (in 2003) there was an article posted on the cork board in the science hall called something like, "Why Tubes Amps Sound Better." It was from some scientific journal or magazine. It caught my eye at the time because it had a picture of a sunburst Jazzmaster leaning against a Showman, but I read the article several times and the gist of it is restated in the first part of this article I just found on Google from Ultimate Guitar (but less "sciencey").

"The purpose of an amplifier is to reproduce a signal as accurately as possible but with a higher "output" amplitude than "input." Thus, if an amplifier is well-designed, it should make no difference whether it uses tubes or transistors, so long as it is operating in it's linear range. In guitar parlance, this is referred to as a "clean" tone. The tubes and transistors serve essentially the same purpose in either case. It is only when the amplifier is operating outside it's linear range that tubes behave differently from transistors, that is when the amplifier is "over-driven." In most areas of music reproduction, this situation is avoided, as it means that the signal will be distorted. The distortion takes the form of "clipping" - the wave-form above a certain amplifier will be chopped off. Tubes do this clipping differently than transistors, producing a "softer," asymmetrical clipping and favouring even-order harmonics over odd-order. This "softer" clipping makes sense, as a tube operates using electrons in a glass tube - there is a lot of space for extra electrons to collect. The clipping produced by tubes is more pleasing to the human ear and at some point, electric guitarist decided that they liked this sound. By contrast, the clipping produced by transistors is "hard." Everything is chopped off equally."

This makes me wonder if what we all like the most about our tube amps is a happy accident. Wasn't Leo Fender using the available technology at the time to try to reproduce the sound of the guitar more loudly without distortion?

The Mystery Men?
El Capitan and The Reluctant Sadists
SSS Agent #31

Fun discussions!

I think there are a couple issues with the acceptance of solid state technology at this point in time. Part of the problem is that a lot of amp companies view solid state technology as a cheap way to make amps, and a way to add more value to tube offerings. This is largely due to the other big issue - Solid state offerings of yesterday have shaped how the vast majority of guitarists view them today. Truth is, there are some truly professional solid state amps out there, that sound good, are reliable, and don't need hardly any maintenance at all, and like someone mentioned earlier, a really good solid state amp can potentially outlive you.

Of course, I also love tubes. Particularly, Orange Thunderverb, PRS archon and anything from Port City's offerings. But it's so expensive.

Also, the Avid eleven rack is worth a mention. Four roughly $400, it is capable of producing some very nice sounds.

IMO.

zzero wrote:

1 small amp with 1-12 hang in with 2 showmans and 3-15's. Edwin's quilter was more brilliant than DD's rig.

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