JONPAUL
Joined: Apr 29, 2010
Posts: 2468
Venice, CA
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Posted on Aug 28 2014 11:05 AM
If you guys haven't been following the "Catalinbread Topanga Spring Reverb" thread, be sure to check it out because the Surfy Bear has entered into the discussion quite prominently.
There will undoubtedly always be arguments centered around the fact that it's larger than a compact pedal and that it utilizes a pan anyway, but let's keep in mind 3 extremely relevant and important factors:
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The Sound!...isn't this really the most important thing--the bottom line, so to speak? It sounds absolutely amazing and so much like a tank! Honestly, for the "Surf" sound of very wet, drippy reverb A LA The Astronauts, I have not heard ANY pedal that comes close to the Surfy Bear.
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The Price!...for those always lamenting that an actual tank just isn't in their budgets, well now THEE sound can be had for an extremely reasonable price! Seriously, if you went full low budget with this, you could be up and running for less than US $100! ($76 Kit, $20 DC Adapter, $3 RCA Cable)
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The Reliability...no tubes or transformers to worry about!
And as an added bonus IMHO, the housing project can become a mega cool one of a kind way to make it your own unique thing (as we've seen already). It's a win-win situation.
Honestly, when the sound samples really start coming in, I think this thing could raise and set the bar for bringing a good, affordable reverb into the homes of those that otherwise would never think of spending the money on an actual outboard unit.
Ludo...I used the MOD pan. Jo...I got the adapter at Fry's Burbank.
— Insect Surfers
The Tikiyaki Orchestra
The Scimitars
Lords Of Atlantis
Fiberglass Jungle - Surf Radio
Last edited: Aug 28, 2014 11:07:01
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ludobag
Joined: Jun 05, 2010
Posts: 620
at south of
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Posted on Aug 28 2014 11:28 AM
and last advantage !!!!
you can kick it without fear for breaking tubes
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Ariel
Joined: Aug 29, 2009
Posts: 1556
Israel
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Posted on Aug 28 2014 11:36 AM
Word, Jonpaul!
It's not really an argument per-Se, just discussion about options.
Any true surf / reggae / rockabilly enthusiast though, once plays this thing, won't put it down for nothing. Try giving him a digital pedal straight after, he will frown and feel sad.
Bottom line for me, is the explosiveness, the huge sound, feel of real springs being hit hard with voltage from my fingers. Irreplaceable.
From a marketing POV, Bjorn would best profit from this idea by offering a complete stand alone unit, in a cool, minimal enclosure. That will catch on better than any DIY project ever will. That's just the nature of the usual costumer.
BTW, to go full low one can purchase only the PCB ($11) and source the other parts. Plus pan in can be as cheap as 50 bucks.
Last edited: Aug 28, 2014 11:45:44
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JObeast
Joined: Jul 24, 2012
Posts: 2762
Finknabad, Squinkistan
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Posted on Aug 28 2014 12:29 PM
PM sent!
bjoish wrote:
JObeast wrote:
Question is, how much more power is the advisable limit? 18V is 33 1/3% higher than 12v – is that tolerable?
I do not recommend more than 12V. Since the amp is class-A, the heatsinks become quite hot even with 12V supply voltage. 18V supply voltage would affect the overall gain and cause even more heat.
There is info about 12V adapters on my website.
JObeast, mail me your delivery address!!
— Squink Out!
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stratdancer
Joined: Dec 11, 2013
Posts: 2533
Akron, Ohio
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Posted on Aug 28 2014 06:36 PM
Surfy Bear vs 1970 Twin Reverb, pan into the normal channel. Can't wait to hear someone compare it to a standard tank in a video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZQFSbY8ddY&feature=youtu.be
— The Kahuna Kings
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447
https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases
Last edited: Aug 28, 2014 18:36:47
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mike_fried
Joined: Aug 02, 2012
Posts: 162
Nashville, TN
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Posted on Aug 28 2014 09:58 PM
At the risk of being labeled a blasphemer , has anyone tried a "short" 3-spring tank (8ABxxxx) with this unit? I'm thinking of pedalboard-friendly options here...
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ludobag
Joined: Jun 05, 2010
Posts: 620
at south of
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Posted on Aug 29 2014 12:40 PM
no extrem setting dwell 7 mix 5 tone 5.5,with the tad pan with drip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEXEmY9EXMw&feature=youtu.be
Last edited: Aug 29, 2014 12:43:56
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BJB
Joined: Jul 28, 2008
Posts: 413
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Posted on Aug 29 2014 02:38 PM
Wow, I have to say I am extremely pleased to see surf players embrace the Surfy Bear. I apologize for being narcissistic, but back in the 90's I built a solid-state reverb unit based on the Fender 6G15. To my years, it sounded just like a tube-driven unit, but the guitarists I showed it to simply did not like the idea of playing through a solid-state circuit. Remember, there was a backlash in the 90's against the rackmounted amplifiers and effects so being a 'purist' was the in thing. Another problem is that these guys were afraid they were missing 'something' because tubes weren't involved. To them, it was worth it to spend the extra money on the real thing, otherwise, they'd lose sleep at night worrying if their reverb was good enough or not.
Another problem I had was that building a solid-state reverb unit was still going to be expensive. I designed it so the electronics themselves would be very cheap. All of the parts were available from Radio Shack! But the cabinet and chassis put my cost over $250, meaning I'd have to be charging $500 for the completed unit. At that price, there's no way I could compete with the tube reverb available from Fender and others at the time.
Hopefully, the Surfy Bear can sell now because the market has changed. Back in the 90's, my competition was Fender, Kendrick, and other boutique reverb builders. But now that a lot of people are used to playing through cheap, crappy digital reverb pedals, they are excited to see that the Surfy Bear reverb blows them away at an affordable price. This new generation isn't as brainwashed about vacuum tubes so maybe they will listen with their ears instead of their eyes.
For comparison purposes, here's my old SS reverb circuit. It is enclosed in a small aluminum box and was meant to mount inside of a Fender Blues DeVille. DC power was taken off from the amplifier's circuit board. Unlike the Surfy Bear, I did not attempt to duplicate each vacuum tube with FETs. Rather, I duplicated each function of the Fender reverb unit using standard electronic circuitry.
http://s973.photobucket.com/user/bjb8543/library/Guitar%20Things/Solid-State%20Reverb%20Project
— If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
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morphball
Joined: Dec 23, 2008
Posts: 3324
Pittsboro, NC
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Posted on Aug 29 2014 03:04 PM
Well thanks a lot guys... I was trying not to spend anything right now, but all of your enthusiasm has gotten to me and I just bought a kit. Not a complaint though, I can't resist a project like this, plus I've already got a spare Accutronics 4AB3C1B just laying around that I bought while trying to diagnose my tank's issue (still out of commission at the moment). This is a no-brainer, even with a Topanga.
— Mike
http://www.youtube.com/morphballio
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bjoish
Joined: Jul 06, 2010
Posts: 596
Stockholm
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Posted on Aug 30 2014 04:15 PM
BJB wrote:
Wow, I have to say I am extremely pleased to see surf players embrace the Surfy Bear. I apologize for being narcissistic, but back in the 90's I built a solid-state reverb unit based on the Fender 6G15. To my years, it sounded just like a tube-driven unit, but the guitarists I showed it to simply did not like the idea of playing through a solid-state circuit. Remember, there was a backlash in the 90's against the rackmounted amplifiers and effects so being a 'purist' was the in thing. Another problem is that these guys were afraid they were missing 'something' because tubes weren't involved. To them, it was worth it to spend the extra money on the real thing, otherwise, they'd lose sleep at night worrying if their reverb was good enough or not.
Another problem I had was that building a solid-state reverb unit was still going to be expensive. I designed it so the electronics themselves would be very cheap. All of the parts were available from Radio Shack! But the cabinet and chassis put my cost over $250, meaning I'd have to be charging $500 for the completed unit. At that price, there's no way I could compete with the tube reverb available from Fender and others at the time.
Hopefully, the Surfy Bear can sell now because the market has changed. Back in the 90's, my competition was Fender, Kendrick, and other boutique reverb builders. But now that a lot of people are used to playing through cheap, crappy digital reverb pedals, they are excited to see that the Surfy Bear reverb blows them away at an affordable price. This new generation isn't as brainwashed about vacuum tubes so maybe they will listen with their ears instead of their eyes.
For comparison purposes, here's my old SS reverb circuit. It is enclosed in a small aluminum box and was meant to mount inside of a Fender Blues DeVille. DC power was taken off from the amplifier's circuit board. Unlike the Surfy Bear, I did not attempt to duplicate each vacuum tube with FETs. Rather, I duplicated each function of the Fender reverb unit using standard electronic circuitry.
http://s973.photobucket.com/user/bjb8543/library/Guitar%20Things/Solid-State%20Reverb%20Project
BJB,
I am a little surprised about the attention my FET Reverb got here at Surfguitar101. Since the 6G15 is 'the holy graal' here, I expected most people to immediately dismiss a SS design.
But atleast some people here seems to thinks it's fun with DIY and are open minded enough
I can imagine that your circuit sounded very good. Reverb circuits are no rocket science. I think the FET reverb sounds very good, but probably mostly because the reverb pan itself sounds so good.
You are right, a nice chassis and cabinet for a reverb tank can be expensive. Thats a problem.
I dont think there is a big market for something like this, but its been a fun project and the surf community deserves many reverb options!
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Snufkino
Joined: Nov 03, 2009
Posts: 228
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Posted on Aug 30 2014 07:47 PM
DreadInBabylon wrote:
What are the dimensions for that enclosure? And how do you wire the footswitch up? If I can fit a box like that on my pedal board, I might give this a go.
Last edited: Aug 30, 2014 19:49:46
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Ariel
Joined: Aug 29, 2009
Posts: 1556
Israel
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Posted on Aug 30 2014 08:35 PM
Snufkino, here's the one I used: https://www.amplifiedparts.com/products/P-H1590C
The W&L are perfect for this, the H is quite oversized, has more than enough air buffer, I plan to stuff more circuitry and hardware there. You might find something more compact. SurbyBear PCB is 100mm X 70mm X 28mm.
The switch is wired to cross the ground and live wires coming back from the pan. Exactly like the PDF, it's as straight-forward as can be!
If you plan to enclose the PCB and pan separately, keep in mind you might need longer than standard (shielded!) RCA cables. This might, or not, affect the sound.
bjoish wrote:
Wow, truly unique
Pure freaky sci-fi !!!
Almost missed that, thank-you! that was the jest..
You're gonna see a lot more cool builds coming - get on with the stickers man! You've got a winner here, realize that to the fullest.
Last edited: Aug 30, 2014 20:55:26
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sonni
Joined: Nov 08, 2006
Posts: 80
Vienna, Austria
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Posted on Aug 31 2014 03:39 AM
yes!
pan and FET reverb separately:
where would you place it, if you took the pan mounted in your amp (-or just placed anywhere else)
a) close to the amp - so you need a remote footswitch, like the fender-reverb has (so maybe we need here both, the footswitch and the remote fs)
b) on the floor, beside your stomp boxes - so you maybe need a shielded RCA cable to connect to the pan, as DreadInBabylon mentiones:
So, to have it more stompable and shielded, what about an ordinary stereo cable with 1/4" Plug with an adaptor to the RCA plugs of the pan? (and an ordinary 1/4“ stereo Jack on the side of the FET reverb box?)
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Ariel
Joined: Aug 29, 2009
Posts: 1556
Israel
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Posted on Aug 31 2014 06:48 AM
No stereo jacks! The grounds need to be separated!
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bjoish
Joined: Jul 06, 2010
Posts: 596
Stockholm
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Posted on Aug 31 2014 07:22 AM
DreadInBabylon wrote:
No stereo jacks! The grounds need to be separated!
Yes, the best thing is to keep the grounds separated.
The return current from the driver coil can interfere with the receiver signal.
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bjoish
Joined: Jul 06, 2010
Posts: 596
Stockholm
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Posted on Aug 31 2014 07:27 AM
Snufkino wrote:
What are the dimensions for that enclosure? And how do you wire the footswitch up? If I can fit a box like that on my pedal board, I might give this a go.
If you want a real tight box I recommend a few ventilation holes.
The class-A amp inside can get unnecessary hot otherwise.
It is possible to mount the MOSFETs against the chassis, but you will need to use isolation pads to avoid a short circuit!!
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stratdancer
Joined: Dec 11, 2013
Posts: 2533
Akron, Ohio
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Posted on Sep 02 2014 05:37 AM
Spent the weekend recording guitar tracks with the fetverb. The next song is kind of a Dick Dale meets The Lively Ones with lots of trem picking. Dwell on 4 1/2, mix on 6 and tone on 7 1/2. Sounds great!
— The Kahuna Kings
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447
https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases
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ludobag
Joined: Jun 05, 2010
Posts: 620
at south of
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Posted on Sep 02 2014 04:55 PM
i have already said but it is true ,this is not a one sound box it is plenty usable with various setting and evermore you play better with
Last edited: Sep 02, 2014 16:55:46
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JObeast
Joined: Jul 24, 2012
Posts: 2762
Finknabad, Squinkistan
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Posted on Sep 09 2014 05:33 PM
Bjorn,
I got my kit in the mail the other day! Stoked!
But a few questions before I begin installing it in a vintage Craftsman 18" toolbox:
I am ignorant about polarity of the power jack, with its 3 lugs. I misremembered the required polarity today when I bought a 12v/1A switching-type regulated supply, & got one with a positive center. So I will need to reverse the leads on the jack. Can you indicate which lug is which? Do you recommend a power-interrupt switch between the power jack and the 9v input?
Is the pair of solder points next to the power input for an LED as power indicator? I am not sure of the symbol's meaning.
Also, I have a spare footswitch with 1/4" plug. Can you show how to wire it into the Reverb return as it is indicated on the diagram? It's a short-circuit, right? I am a circuit-building infant, so please be patient with me.
I saw above that the Surfgitar who built his kit into a red metal toolbox, has fairly long leads between the control pots and jacks mounted on the lid and the board mounted on the tool tray. Weighing the advantages of mounting the board on the tray-as-chassis:
+
lots of air space & conductance of all the metal to dissipate heat, & less vibration/shock there than in the lid.
-
aren't long leads prone to noise? Doesn't movement of leads upon opening/closing lid degrade solder joints?
Thanks Bjorn, et al.!
— Squink Out!
Last edited: Sep 09, 2014 17:33:46
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26Alpha20
Joined: Jul 17, 2011
Posts: 59
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Posted on Sep 09 2014 11:50 PM
Saw some of these at Ace hardware stores. Thought you guys who have been using tool boxes would be interested in a cool looking enclosure.
Rocking boxes
— Get wet and loud wit... Abomionable Showmen FB Showmen Twitter
Last edited: Sep 09, 2014 23:53:45
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