caddady
Joined: Feb 14, 2010
Posts: 802
N.E. Ohio
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Posted on Apr 21 2014 01:36 PM
caddady wrote:
Can an AC15 get "the tone" only with less volume?
Yes. Will the volume/headroom be enough to play with a band? It depends how loud you play, but probably not. I'd say it's comparable to a Deluxe Reverb in terms of volume and headroom. But for studio use or home use, it's a great choice!
As I thought. Thanks
Ivan, if you will be playing Frightened City, can you see if anyone would vid your Dad's left hand? I hear what I have to do, and know it can't be that hard, but need to see someone do it.
Greg C.
Member in good standings, Ivan P. Sr. fan club.
— http://www.reverbnation.com/thegreasemonkeyz
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Apr 21 2014 01:39 PM
Ivan P. Sr. fan club member here as well. Pretty rude of Ivan to give his dad all of the hard parts!
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ElBirkerio
Joined: Dec 17, 2012
Posts: 519
Vienna
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Posted on Apr 21 2014 02:11 PM
hi!
i see ... i thought that these problems were related to the earlier korg reissues...
my 2 nd generation one has none of these problems and a quite good mod ... the replacement of the frail rectifier valve with a semiconductor.
It's a horrible idea to do this - AC-30s HAVE to have a tube rectifier!
from a technical and a physicists point of view, i doubt that there is a huge impact from the rectifier on the sound. i am not talking about preamp- or amp valves ... but the rectfier??? as there is a semiconductor-insert for the GZ 34, i would love to see whether someone has experience with that setup ...
yours wolfi
— http://www.surfgrammeln-san.org
https://www.facebook.com/BaluUndSurfgrammeln
http://greencookierecords.bandcamp.com/album/coming-out-soon-los-chicharrones-del-surf-10
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derekirving
Joined: Nov 03, 2011
Posts: 660
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Posted on Apr 21 2014 02:30 PM
Weber makes solidstate rectifiers which emulate tube sag. I had a reissue bassman and used their weber WZ34 (GZ34) substitution for a while. To me at least I hear the difference, a soildstate / semiconductor will be a bit stiffer/tighter/puncher/possibly harsher top end while a tube (depending on the rectifier tube) will soften the notes, give sag to the notes, quicker compression, etc - try both to see what works best for you. Depends if you want immediate note reaction (solidstate rectifier) or a very slight delay to the note reaction (tube/valve). There's typically a bit more voltage in a soildstate rectifier also, so these are not recommend on older amps.
I prefer tube rectifiers, for the warmer/softness/sponginess, more touch dynamics, compression, etc - you may need to find the right tube (even if it's the same model) some tubes will be mushy'er than others while some will sound better.
http://www.webervst.com/ccap.html
http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/rectifiers.html
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOLID-STATE-REPLACEMENT-FOR-5Y3GT-5U4G-5U4GB-5AR4-GZ34-Less-Sag-/390629155580
Last edited: Apr 21, 2014 14:41:52
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IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10331
southern Michigan
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Posted on Apr 21 2014 03:32 PM
caddady wrote:
Ivan, if you will be playing Frightened City, can you see if anyone would vid your Dad's left hand? I hear what I have to do, and know it can't be that hard, but need to see someone do it.
See below - TWO videos! (We're not playing it on Sunday - didn't seem appropriate as wedding music!  )
Member in good standings, Ivan P. Sr. fan club.
Thanks to both you and Jake! I'll pass it on to my dad, I'm sure he'll really appreciate it!
— Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube
Last edited: Apr 21, 2014 15:34:29
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IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10331
southern Michigan
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Posted on Apr 21 2014 03:40 PM
ElBirkerio wrote:
i see ... i thought that these problems were related to the earlier korg reissues...
I don't think so, not that I've heard of.
from a technical and a physicists point of view, i doubt that there is a huge impact from the rectifier on the sound. i am not talking about preamp- or amp valves ... but the rectfier??? as there is a semiconductor-insert for the GZ 34, i would love to see whether someone has experience with that setup ...
As Derek explained, there's a bit of a 'sag' with a tube rectifier, which creates a slower initial attack to the note, and creates a bit of a softer sound. This is the characteristic sound of tweed Fenders as well as AC-30s. Changing to a solid-state rectifier will create a harder, quicker attack, which can work really well for surf music in particular - it's the sound of brownface and blackface Fenders, as well as Marshalls. But though I like that sound, too, I think that softer, spongier, slower initial attack of AC-30s is a signature part of its sound and shouldn't be messed with. (The Rose-Morris AC-30s also had the solid state rectifier, and the one that I had, that required significant mods to avoid the heating problem, is the one now used by my dad. It's a good sounding amp now, but it doesn't sound or play as good as my Korg-era one, and I think it's due to the lack of the tube rectifier.)
— Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube
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ElBirkerio
Joined: Dec 17, 2012
Posts: 519
Vienna
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Posted on Apr 21 2014 03:50 PM
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IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10331
southern Michigan
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Posted on Apr 21 2014 03:51 PM
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IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10331
southern Michigan
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Posted on Apr 21 2014 04:44 PM
ElBirkerio wrote:
i see ... curious to see the difference in a side-to-side comparison ;)
wolfi, if you're skeptical about the difference, why did you replace the tube rectifier with a solid-state one in the first place?
— Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube
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JONPAUL
Joined: Apr 29, 2010
Posts: 2472
Venice, CA
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Posted on Apr 21 2014 05:15 PM
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imafunkyman
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 548
Utah
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Posted on Apr 21 2014 08:39 PM
That's it. AC30 for me!
— Either you surf, or you fight.
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Apr 21 2014 09:39 PM
JONPAUL wrote:
Rectifier?....I hardly know 'er!
   
I want to shake your hand.
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ElBirkerio
Joined: Dec 17, 2012
Posts: 519
Vienna
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Posted on Apr 22 2014 04:20 AM
hi!
wolfi, if you're skeptical about the difference, why did you replace the > tube rectifier with a solid-state one in the first place?
i did not, despite of being a notorious tinkerer. the newer voxes come without one. i realized when i got a nice set of tubes (EL84_STR, 7025_WA, 2 x 7025_S - way more better than the 12AX7 that were in there before since they gave a more raunchy, bluesy tone) that there is no socket for the rectifier ...
... tried to sell the GZ34 to ralf, but he does not have a tube-rectifier in his AC 30 either  ...
so - no chance to take a one-on-one comparison for me. the argument with the tube sag sounds reasonable, but still i would love to see whether there is a huge impact on the sound ...
@jonpaul: personally, I prefer the german term: "Gleichrichter", or in this case even better "Huellkurvendetektor" ... german is a lovely language, isn't it?
yours
wolfi
— http://www.surfgrammeln-san.org
https://www.facebook.com/BaluUndSurfgrammeln
http://greencookierecords.bandcamp.com/album/coming-out-soon-los-chicharrones-del-surf-10
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caddady
Joined: Feb 14, 2010
Posts: 802
N.E. Ohio
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Posted on Apr 22 2014 08:08 AM
Huellkurvendetektor? Ich kenne sie kaum!
???
— http://www.reverbnation.com/thegreasemonkeyz
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ElBirkerio
Joined: Dec 17, 2012
Posts: 519
Vienna
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Posted on Apr 22 2014 09:00 AM
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derekirving
Joined: Nov 03, 2011
Posts: 660
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Posted on Apr 22 2014 11:08 AM
ElBirkerio wrote:
so - no chance to take a one-on-one comparison for me. the argument with the tube sag sounds reasonable, but still i would love to see whether there is a huge impact on the sound ...
wolfi
I don't know about the Vox AC30, but when using solidstate vs tube rectifier in my reissue tweed bassman there was an audible and feeling/dynamics difference. In fact I have a 1973 super reverb where I tried a solidstate (Weber GZ34) and I quickly went back to the tube rectifier. Some amps work with a solid state rectifier, but those tend to be ones that never had a tube rectifier in the first place. There is more than tube sag occurring, there's a softness tone wise to the sound, the amp responds/feels a bit looser and there's note compression. A solid state rectifier in some amps is like your hand hitting a wall (stiff / immediate) and a tube is like your hand hitting a firm or soft piece of foam (more give, softness and sponginess/compression).
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caddady
Joined: Feb 14, 2010
Posts: 802
N.E. Ohio
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Posted on Apr 22 2014 03:03 PM
I just priced a set of celestion blues.  $280.00 USD each. For 15 watt speakers? They must be loaded with magic sauce or something.
Had stopped my my local non guitar center shop to sniff and fondle new AC30s and I see them loaded with greenbacks. Is nothing comparable to the blue's?
Envelopes, Little Pigs, Wolf's I'm so confused.
— http://www.reverbnation.com/thegreasemonkeyz
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IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10331
southern Michigan
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Posted on Apr 22 2014 03:22 PM
caddady wrote:
I just priced a set of celestion blues. $280.00 USD each. For 15 watt speakers? They must be loaded with magic sauce or something.
They are.  They're alnico-magnet speakers, which is a very expensive magnet today. Some years ago Guitar Player magazine did a speaker shootout among a bunch of manufacturers, and Celestion Blue won. Weber makes copies, and they're pretty good, and a bit cheaper. I'm sure other manufacturers also make copies, but from what I've heard, nobody quite makes them as good as Celestion.
Had stopped my my local non guitar center shop to sniff and fondle new AC30s and I see them loaded with greenbacks. Is nothing comparable to the blue's?
No, sorry. I really don't think so (except for the copies of the Blues, like the Weber I mentioned above - I think it's called Blue Dog, or something like that.)
— Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube
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derekirving
Joined: Nov 03, 2011
Posts: 660
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Posted on Apr 22 2014 03:23 PM
Weber makes Celestion Blue clones called "Weber Blue Dog", i believe you'd just select the 15w model, $208. Warehouse Speakers WGS has some blue clones as well those are $225. Both are a tad bit cheaper than new celestions or try to find some blues used. I've never compared the two (celestion vs WGS/Weber) but I do have other WGS speakers that I think are great and I've heard great things about Webers too.
https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/ - under British Series, Blue Dog
https://wgs4.com/content/BnB
Those Celestion Blues are an important part of that classic vox sound (compression/tone) IMHO. If you dig the current vox speakers roll with them for a while until you make a decision on the blues or hit the used market.
Last edited: Apr 22, 2014 15:33:03
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RaistMagus
Joined: Mar 30, 2011
Posts: 388
Copenhagen
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Posted on Apr 24 2014 01:41 AM
I love the Langhorns tone but for some reason I thought it was a BF Deluxe Reverb, now that I know it's a Vox I have one more reason to get one.
Ivan, in what albums/songs have you used a Vox AC30 with the Space Cossacks and the Madeira? Do you record with the AC30 or with a Fender?
I'm seriously considering dropping serious dough in a new Vox AC30 Handwired (HW2X). I've listened to, played and gigged various Vox AC30s (not this model though but I guess it could only sound better that the rest) and I know I like them. The problem is that I can't play the specific amp I'm going to buy. I have to order it online.
Do you guys think these amps could vary so much, like guitars do, that I should buy the specimen I play and like and not a random one?
(I'm going for the Handwired one because of the 15W mode, the bypassable master volume, the higher quality components, the higher quality stock tubes, the p2p reliability and the ease of repair, else I'd just get the AC30C2X)
— https://zakandthekrakens.bandcamp.com/
https://www.dirtyfuse.com
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