3D printed records!?

caddady

Joined: Feb 14, 2010
Posts: 802
N.E. Ohio
United States

Posted on Mar 26 2014 11:59 AM

http://www.instructables.com/id/3D-Printed-Record/

I had a dream about this, goggled it and bingo. It could change things up a bit. Print a record on demand and ship...

There is a group at the Biz Incubator here in town that is crazy mad about this 3D printing and they are putting machines into public schools.

Hmmmmmmm...

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killbabykill34

Joined: Apr 03, 2010
Posts: 3201
Jacksonville, AL
United States

Posted on Mar 26 2014 01:32 PM

Once this technology gets in line this will certainly be a game changer. Short-run vinyl releases...glee

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Noel

Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 8528
Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.
United States

Posted on Mar 26 2014 01:54 PM

killbabykill34 wrote:

Once this technology gets in line this will certainly be a game changer. Short-run vinyl releases...glee

I see a tremendous opportunity for someone to create a business offering on-demand printing and shipping of records direct to buyers, the way CafePress does T-shirts. The economy of scale potential is enormous.

I hope our favorite record labels are looking at this. It's a natural for them. The only overhead is raw material and the printer.

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This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.

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Tuck

Joined: Sep 02, 2006
Posts: 3166
Denver, CO
12 Calendar Pins

Posted on Mar 26 2014 05:00 PM

Of course, on demand printing of CDs is already possible and easier. Except that sending the stuff over the net is even easier.

I think at present you'd get better results with a tool that laser cuts the disk. Pressing requires a master and if you're generating a master you might as well generate the final result instead.

If it were possible to scan an existing record in sufficient resolution and print in vinyl with the same, it would change things, but in a strange way, since it is already possible to abstract the sound from any surviving record and redistribute that digitally. And, of course, you could write software to generate artificial models of what a new vinyl recording would be like and then print that. Or software to smooth out the scratches in a scan and print that. But it would be a kind of strange "automated" retro. Would it be retro enough to merit being used in addition to more purely digital processes?

For me the big attraction of LPs was mostly the packaging, when it was nice. 45s typically lacked this, though not always, and what they had was comparable to or worse than what CDs have.

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Stirz

Joined: Mar 10, 2014
Posts: 17
Ogden, Utah
United States

Posted on Mar 26 2014 08:18 PM

Agree with Tuck:
- LP's are essentially analog generated (wiggly stylus in a master). I'm sure someone could figure out how to take a recording and generate a spiral squiggle to input into the printer map, but that seems like taking the long way around the barn.
- Printer resolution would have to be pretty good to duplicate the spiral squiggle to the level LP's are currently generated, but the printer tech gets better each year.
- Analog rules in my book, but there would be a limited market given the shift to digital download buying habits.

Not raining on anyone's parade. As the printer tech gets better, there could be a market for mom and pop shop/artist production but I think it would be on a limited scale.

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Noel

Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 8528
Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.
United States

Posted on Mar 26 2014 08:45 PM

By definition, the grooves have to be analog, or record players couldn't play them. Only the means by which the grooves are made is digital. Some vinyl these days is still created using all-analog signals from tape to groove, but not all of it. Maybe not most of it. I really don't know.

I think what will matter most is how precisely printed grooves compare to traditional grooves. If they're indistinguishable, they'll sound the same. The eventual A/B comparisons ought to be interesting.

EDIT:
I just thought of this though; printed records are not likely to feel the same as traditional vinyl records. I don't know if people will find that objectionable, or care. And I doubt they will wear the same.

—

This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.

Last edited: Mar 26, 2014 21:13:28

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ElMonstroPorFavor

Joined: Sep 01, 2006
Posts: 2718
New Orleans, LA
4 Contributor Pins

Posted on Mar 26 2014 11:17 PM

Great points everyone. The funny thing is that I would imagine that the ideal process would have whatever subtractive process running in the same concentric circles a record moves in... so you're essentially making a new master anyway.

What I do wonder is if this would open up new possibilities for the medium the record is printed on. Vinyl is nice because it's flexible, but it's also scratchable and easily damaged by, say, heavy tracking force. Wonder how ABS would compare? Carbon fiber?

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Storm Surge of Reverb: Surf & Instro Radio

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remora1

Joined: Jan 04, 2008
Posts: 1275
San Pedro, CA
United States

Posted on Mar 27 2014 08:27 AM

3D printing is great for prototyping and proof of concept stuff, but being a mechanical process it's pretty time consuming. And of course the higher the resolution the longer it takes. I don't see any mention of how long these records took to make. I'm sure the technology will keep improving but we're a long way from popping out high quality 45's or LP's in minutes or even hours.

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HELLDIVER on Facebook

Last edited: Mar 27, 2014 08:36:59

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caddady

Joined: Feb 14, 2010
Posts: 802
N.E. Ohio
United States

Posted on Mar 27 2014 09:27 AM

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raito

Joined: Oct 16, 2008
Posts: 549
Madison, WI
Antarctica

Posted on May 12 2014 02:42 PM

ABS would be no better than vinyl. Carbon fiber is fibers. Polycarbonate would probably be a bit better.

Given that cutting a vinyl record is pretty easy, I'd think that if there were demand from both sellers and buyers there would already be someone selling on-demand vinyl cutting.

Pressing records is a great process, but only economical when used at large scale.

As for figuring out how to do a squiggly groove, that's been done already by the people who can make digital copies of LPs using lasers.

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Noel

Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 8528
Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.
United States

Posted on May 12 2014 03:13 PM

There's an interesting article on the state of 3-D printing, starting on Page 18 in this month's issue of Pitt Magazine. It explains the different types of 3-D printers and how they're already being used. It also explores how they are expected to completely change manufacturing in the near future. There's already a significant and growing investment in it. Those involved in developing it and finding new uses for it expect it to be the next industrial revolution.

Among the benefits is perfect reproduction and very low cost, even of just one item, depending on the price of raw material. I think vinyl fits into the very low cost raw material category.

It's nowhere near a mature technology. Yet!

It's here. Just jump to Page 18.

And you have to see this. A $50.00 3-D printed hand beats a $42,000.00 medical prosthetic. Here.

—

This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.

Last edited: May 12, 2014 16:39:26

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caddady Joined: Feb 14, 2010 Posts: 802 N.E. Ohio	Posted on Mar 26 2014 11:59 AM http://www.instructables.com/id/3D-Printed-Record/ I had a dream about this, goggled it and bingo. It could change things up a bit. Print a record on demand and ship... There is a group at the Biz Incubator here in town that is crazy mad about this 3D printing and they are putting machines into public schools. Hmmmmmmm... — http://www.reverbnation.com/thegreasemonkeyz Top
killbabykill34 Joined: Apr 03, 2010 Posts: 3201 Jacksonville, AL	Posted on Mar 26 2014 01:32 PM Once this technology gets in line this will certainly be a game changer. Short-run vinyl releases...glee — THE KBK ... This is the last known signal. We offer Sanctuary. www.thekbk.com http://www.deepeddy.net/artists/thekbk/ www.reverbnation.com/thekbk www.facebook.com/thekbkal Top
Noel Joined: Mar 15, 2011 Posts: 8528 Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.	Posted on Mar 26 2014 01:54 PM killbabykill34 wrote: Once this technology gets in line this will certainly be a game changer. Short-run vinyl releases...glee I see a tremendous opportunity for someone to create a business offering on-demand printing and shipping of records direct to buyers, the way CafePress does T-shirts. The economy of scale potential is enormous. I hope our favorite record labels are looking at this. It's a natural for them. The only overhead is raw material and the printer. — This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got. Top
Tuck Joined: Sep 02, 2006 Posts: 3166 Denver, CO	Posted on Mar 26 2014 05:00 PM Of course, on demand printing of CDs is already possible and easier. Except that sending the stuff over the net is even easier. I think at present you'd get better results with a tool that laser cuts the disk. Pressing requires a master and if you're generating a master you might as well generate the final result instead. If it were possible to scan an existing record in sufficient resolution and print in vinyl with the same, it would change things, but in a strange way, since it is already possible to abstract the sound from any surviving record and redistribute that digitally. And, of course, you could write software to generate artificial models of what a new vinyl recording would be like and then print that. Or software to smooth out the scratches in a scan and print that. But it would be a kind of strange "automated" retro. Would it be retro enough to merit being used in addition to more purely digital processes? For me the big attraction of LPs was mostly the packaging, when it was nice. 45s typically lacked this, though not always, and what they had was comparable to or worse than what CDs have. Top
Stirz Joined: Mar 10, 2014 Posts: 17 Ogden, Utah	Posted on Mar 26 2014 08:18 PM Agree with Tuck: - LP's are essentially analog generated (wiggly stylus in a master). I'm sure someone could figure out how to take a recording and generate a spiral squiggle to input into the printer map, but that seems like taking the long way around the barn. - Printer resolution would have to be pretty good to duplicate the spiral squiggle to the level LP's are currently generated, but the printer tech gets better each year. - Analog rules in my book, but there would be a limited market given the shift to digital download buying habits. Not raining on anyone's parade. As the printer tech gets better, there could be a market for mom and pop shop/artist production but I think it would be on a limited scale. Top
Noel Joined: Mar 15, 2011 Posts: 8528 Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.	Posted on Mar 26 2014 08:45 PM By definition, the grooves have to be analog, or record players couldn't play them. Only the means by which the grooves are made is digital. Some vinyl these days is still created using all-analog signals from tape to groove, but not all of it. Maybe not most of it. I really don't know. I think what will matter most is how precisely printed grooves compare to traditional grooves. If they're indistinguishable, they'll sound the same. The eventual A/B comparisons ought to be interesting. EDIT: I just thought of this though; printed records are not likely to feel the same as traditional vinyl records. I don't know if people will find that objectionable, or care. And I doubt they will wear the same. — This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got. Last edited: Mar 26, 2014 21:13:28 Top
ElMonstroPorFavor Joined: Sep 01, 2006 Posts: 2718 New Orleans, LA	Posted on Mar 26 2014 11:17 PM Great points everyone. The funny thing is that I would imagine that the ideal process would have whatever subtractive process running in the same concentric circles a record moves in... so you're essentially making a new master anyway. What I do wonder is if this would open up new possibilities for the medium the record is printed on. Vinyl is nice because it's flexible, but it's also scratchable and easily damaged by, say, heavy tracking force. Wonder how ABS would compare? Carbon fiber? — Storm Surge of Reverb: Surf & Instro Radio Top
remora1 Joined: Jan 04, 2008 Posts: 1275 San Pedro, CA	Posted on Mar 27 2014 08:27 AM 3D printing is great for prototyping and proof of concept stuff, but being a mechanical process it's pretty time consuming. And of course the higher the resolution the longer it takes. I don't see any mention of how long these records took to make. I'm sure the technology will keep improving but we're a long way from popping out high quality 45's or LP's in minutes or even hours. — Bill S._______ HELLDIVER on Facebook Last edited: Mar 27, 2014 08:36:59 Top
caddady Joined: Feb 14, 2010 Posts: 802 N.E. Ohio	Posted on Mar 27 2014 09:27 AM — http://www.reverbnation.com/thegreasemonkeyz Top
raito Joined: Oct 16, 2008 Posts: 549 Madison, WI	Posted on May 12 2014 02:42 PM ABS would be no better than vinyl. Carbon fiber is fibers. Polycarbonate would probably be a bit better. Given that cutting a vinyl record is pretty easy, I'd think that if there were demand from both sellers and buyers there would already be someone selling on-demand vinyl cutting. Pressing records is a great process, but only economical when used at large scale. As for figuring out how to do a squiggly groove, that's been done already by the people who can make digital copies of LPs using lasers. Top
Noel Joined: Mar 15, 2011 Posts: 8528 Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.	Posted on May 12 2014 03:13 PM There's an interesting article on the state of 3-D printing, starting on Page 18 in this month's issue of Pitt Magazine. It explains the different types of 3-D printers and how they're already being used. It also explores how they are expected to completely change manufacturing in the near future. There's already a significant and growing investment in it. Those involved in developing it and finding new uses for it expect it to be the next industrial revolution. Among the benefits is perfect reproduction and very low cost, even of just one item, depending on the price of raw material. I think vinyl fits into the very low cost raw material category. It's nowhere near a mature technology. Yet! It's here. Just jump to Page 18. And you have to see this. A $50.00 3-D printed hand beats a $42,000.00 medical prosthetic. Here. — This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got. Last edited: May 12, 2014 16:39:26 Top

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3D printed records!?