whammed outta tune

brukout

Joined: Mar 28, 2007
Posts: 29

Posted on Apr 10 2007 04:57 AM

anyone find that use of the whammy bar puts all strings outta tune? i dont, but my friend has an epiphone wildcat and using it puts his out of tune pretty badly, so he took it off. im sure there must be a way to remedy this ?

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estreet

Joined: Mar 17, 2007
Posts: 839
United Kingdom
1 POTD Pin

Posted on Apr 10 2007 07:18 AM

I'm guessing this will be a topic that runs and runs.. or has ran and ran before.

It's something that plagues most of us who ever use the Strat-type tremolo arm. Much has been written about keeping the Strat trem in tune and a lot of info is readily available on the net, so try a search in Google. However, some key points are:

Have the bridge tensioned so it 'floats' about 1/8th of an inch above the guitar body - you should be able to get a semitone rise in pitch when you pull the arm back. If it's flush to the body then you can't pull the arm back to bring back the tension from the other side of the nut.
The resistance of the springs needs to be balanced according to the gauge of strings you are using - hard to keep in tune if the action of the arm is too floppy.
Make sure the strings are well stretched when fitted by pulling out and tuning up again.
People often accuse the tuning heads of 'slipping' when the guitar is hard to keep in tune - but this is almost never the case. because..
By far the most common cause of the problem is uneven tensions building up over the nut or the string trees. Use roller trees and do what you can to stop the string sticking in the nut - there are many methods for this. ie: lubricating the nut, making sure the string slots are not too tight or using a graphite, brass or roller nut. Make sure the string isn't going over a 'knife edge' either where it enters or exits the nut as that will hold on to the string.

Even with these pointers tuning stability can be elusive and I find that it seems to come and go on some of my guitars. Ultimately it always helps to have a tuner in line on the floor so that you can check the tuning quickly between numbers. Agin, if you are having problems with a non-Strat type tremolo then many of these points still apply but a search on the net will almost certainly return some info.

Hope this is of some help....

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http://www.myspace.com/thepashuns

Youth and enthusiasm are no match for age and treachery.

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NoisyDad

Joined: Mar 04, 2006
Posts: 215
West Hartford, CT
United States

Posted on Apr 10 2007 09:24 AM

I've tried some of those techniques on my Strat-style trem, but I'm still glad to have that tuner pedal at my feet.

A related question for people who have both kinds: is the tuning issue any less of a problem with a jazz/jag trem (assuming both types are properly set up, of course)?

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http://www.aquatudes.com
http://www.facebook.com/theaquatudes

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Surfgitar

Joined: Mar 16, 2007
Posts: 1342
Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
United States

Posted on Apr 10 2007 09:49 AM

I use a whammy bar ALOT. And the last thing I want is to be tuning all the time. So before I bought my strat I did a bunch of research. I discovered that strats that come with the modern tremelo bridge, LSR roller nuts and locking tuners hold their tuning remarkably well. The other guitarist in our band refit his strat with the LSR roller nuts and Sperzel locking tuners and he rarely goes outta tune even after divebombing - which he does alot. We're both amazed that when we tune before practice, our guitars remained in tune from the prior week. Just my 2Â¢.

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CUTBACK

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JetBlue

Joined: May 30, 2006
Posts: 746
Cool, CA
United States

Posted on Apr 10 2007 10:37 AM

Ditto estreet's point #5. Keeping the nut and string trees lubed with graphite made all the difference for me. Such a simple thing that escaped me for so long.

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Don

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surfneptune

Joined: Mar 16, 2006
Posts: 923
3 News Pins

Posted on Apr 10 2007 11:16 AM

I found after the nut being lubed, only put one and a half winds of the strings on their posts. That made the most improvement, I am anti-float as far as the bridge goes, way more stable as a down-only device.

Just my two cents.

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THe NEpTuNeS

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Anonymous

Joined: Nov 10, 2000
Posts: -180

Posted on Apr 10 2007 04:00 PM

yall know i hate trems but here it goes. in the 80"s i had a double locking trem on a charvel and a single locking trem on an ibanez_ and the charvel virtually never went out of tune during a gig and the nez would sometimes go under heavy divebombing. switched to strats in the early 90's and the vintage style trems never stayed in tune if i used em more than once during a song. so now i block up the strat trems. sometimes i want my old charvel back but that humbucker don't clank peace_

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Flowmaster_G

Joined: Nov 09, 2006
Posts: 140
Los Angeles, California

Posted on Apr 13 2007 02:17 AM

I agree with having the least possible number of wraps around the tuning post on the tuners; more than just 1-2 warps means constant settling of the string every time you use the trem, like a fishing reel. Less wraps= less give. I also use nut-grease in nut slots, a mix of vaseline +graphite. Work's great. My 1961 Gretsch 6120 stays in tune great. My Wilson Bros VM-110 does almost as well with 10's. Soon I will switch-up to 11's and that will greatly improve tuning stability as well.

My most comon tuning prob. with trem use is that the G goes sharp.

By the way, I just bought a Peterson strob0stomp tuner pedal; it has a HUGE well lit display and is FAST and is much more accurate than my Boss TU-2 (classic white one everyone has). I will be using it for the first time on stage at the next Flowmasters gig opening for the Surfaris at HB on April 29.

The VM-110 is a real pleasure to play and it sounds soooo good. It's my fav. surf axe right now. My AVRI jazzmaster and Mosrite excellent rarely see the light of my amp lately (it sounds better than the Excellent!). I'm having my new Dipinto Galaxy 4 set up as we speak and hope to have it as my back-up on the 19th. It too stays in tune quite well, without any greasing of the nut (which I will do, regardless).

g

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JoshHeartless

Joined: Jun 17, 2006
Posts: 1010
Bay City, Michigan
United States

Posted on Apr 13 2007 04:54 PM

brukout
my friend has an epiphone wildcat and using it puts his out of tune pretty badly

i know whatya mean, i have a wilkat, too. its a pretty nice guitar. yes, the bigsby is pretty bad, but like its been said before, just pull the strings away from the fretboard at about the 12th fret and keep tuning them back, keep doing it until it doesnt go out of tune anymore and it wont be half as bad. my wildkat never goes out of tune once i do that. dont pull 'em too hard or youll break 'em.

good luck!

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The Tremblors on MySpace!

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brukout Joined: Mar 28, 2007 Posts: 29	Posted on Apr 10 2007 04:57 AM anyone find that use of the whammy bar puts all strings outta tune? i dont, but my friend has an epiphone wildcat and using it puts his out of tune pretty badly, so he took it off. im sure there must be a way to remedy this ? — www.myspace.com/killsomefuckingtime Top
estreet Joined: Mar 17, 2007 Posts: 839 United Kingdom	Posted on Apr 10 2007 07:18 AM I'm guessing this will be a topic that runs and runs.. or has ran and ran before. It's something that plagues most of us who ever use the Strat-type tremolo arm. Much has been written about keeping the Strat trem in tune and a lot of info is readily available on the net, so try a search in Google. However, some key points are: Have the bridge tensioned so it 'floats' about 1/8th of an inch above the guitar body - you should be able to get a semitone rise in pitch when you pull the arm back. If it's flush to the body then you can't pull the arm back to bring back the tension from the other side of the nut. The resistance of the springs needs to be balanced according to the gauge of strings you are using - hard to keep in tune if the action of the arm is too floppy. Make sure the strings are well stretched when fitted by pulling out and tuning up again. People often accuse the tuning heads of 'slipping' when the guitar is hard to keep in tune - but this is almost never the case. because.. By far the most common cause of the problem is uneven tensions building up over the nut or the string trees. Use roller trees and do what you can to stop the string sticking in the nut - there are many methods for this. ie: lubricating the nut, making sure the string slots are not too tight or using a graphite, brass or roller nut. Make sure the string isn't going over a 'knife edge' either where it enters or exits the nut as that will hold on to the string. Even with these pointers tuning stability can be elusive and I find that it seems to come and go on some of my guitars. Ultimately it always helps to have a tuner in line on the floor so that you can check the tuning quickly between numbers. Agin, if you are having problems with a non-Strat type tremolo then many of these points still apply but a search on the net will almost certainly return some info. Hope this is of some help.... — http://www.myspace.com/thepashuns Youth and enthusiasm are no match for age and treachery. Top
NoisyDad Joined: Mar 04, 2006 Posts: 215 West Hartford, CT	Posted on Apr 10 2007 09:24 AM I've tried some of those techniques on my Strat-style trem, but I'm still glad to have that tuner pedal at my feet. A related question for people who have both kinds: is the tuning issue any less of a problem with a jazz/jag trem (assuming both types are properly set up, of course)? — http://www.aquatudes.com http://www.facebook.com/theaquatudes Top
Surfgitar Joined: Mar 16, 2007 Posts: 1342 Ft. Lauderdale, Florida	Posted on Apr 10 2007 09:49 AM I use a whammy bar ALOT. And the last thing I want is to be tuning all the time. So before I bought my strat I did a bunch of research. I discovered that strats that come with the modern tremelo bridge, LSR roller nuts and locking tuners hold their tuning remarkably well. The other guitarist in our band refit his strat with the LSR roller nuts and Sperzel locking tuners and he rarely goes outta tune even after divebombing - which he does alot. We're both amazed that when we tune before practice, our guitars remained in tune from the prior week. Just my 2Â¢. — CUTBACK Top
JetBlue Joined: May 30, 2006 Posts: 746 Cool, CA	Posted on Apr 10 2007 10:37 AM Ditto estreet's point #5. Keeping the nut and string trees lubed with graphite made all the difference for me. Such a simple thing that escaped me for so long. — Don Top
surfneptune Joined: Mar 16, 2006 Posts: 923	Posted on Apr 10 2007 11:16 AM I found after the nut being lubed, only put one and a half winds of the strings on their posts. That made the most improvement, I am anti-float as far as the bridge goes, way more stable as a down-only device. Just my two cents. — THe NEpTuNeS Top
Anonymous Joined: Nov 10, 2000 Posts: -180	Posted on Apr 10 2007 04:00 PM yall know i hate trems but here it goes. in the 80"s i had a double locking trem on a charvel and a single locking trem on an ibanez_ and the charvel virtually never went out of tune during a gig and the nez would sometimes go under heavy divebombing. switched to strats in the early 90's and the vintage style trems never stayed in tune if i used em more than once during a song. so now i block up the strat trems. sometimes i want my old charvel back but that humbucker don't clank peace_ Top
Flowmaster_G Joined: Nov 09, 2006 Posts: 140 Los Angeles, California	Posted on Apr 13 2007 02:17 AM I agree with having the least possible number of wraps around the tuning post on the tuners; more than just 1-2 warps means constant settling of the string every time you use the trem, like a fishing reel. Less wraps= less give. I also use nut-grease in nut slots, a mix of vaseline +graphite. Work's great. My 1961 Gretsch 6120 stays in tune great. My Wilson Bros VM-110 does almost as well with 10's. Soon I will switch-up to 11's and that will greatly improve tuning stability as well. My most comon tuning prob. with trem use is that the G goes sharp. By the way, I just bought a Peterson strob0stomp tuner pedal; it has a HUGE well lit display and is FAST and is much more accurate than my Boss TU-2 (classic white one everyone has). I will be using it for the first time on stage at the next Flowmasters gig opening for the Surfaris at HB on April 29. The VM-110 is a real pleasure to play and it sounds soooo good. It's my fav. surf axe right now. My AVRI jazzmaster and Mosrite excellent rarely see the light of my amp lately (it sounds better than the Excellent!). I'm having my new Dipinto Galaxy 4 set up as we speak and hope to have it as my back-up on the 19th. It too stays in tune quite well, without any greasing of the nut (which I will do, regardless). g Top
JoshHeartless Joined: Jun 17, 2006 Posts: 1010 Bay City, Michigan	Posted on Apr 13 2007 04:54 PM brukout my friend has an epiphone wildcat and using it puts his out of tune pretty badly i know whatya mean, i have a wilkat, too. its a pretty nice guitar. yes, the bigsby is pretty bad, but like its been said before, just pull the strings away from the fretboard at about the 12th fret and keep tuning them back, keep doing it until it doesnt go out of tune anymore and it wont be half as bad. my wildkat never goes out of tune once i do that. dont pull 'em too hard or youll break 'em. good luck! — The Tremblors on Facebook! The Tremblors on MySpace! Top

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whammed outta tune