ncgalt1984
Joined: Nov 27, 2013
Posts: 235
Greenville, NC
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Posted on Feb 26 2014 01:18 PM
Hey guys,
I couldn't find another thread on this so I hope this isn't a re-post. I'm actually a little reluctant to post this, too, because I don't want to offend anyone. A guy at a local guitar shop told me this and, at first it makes sense, but I am not sure I believe it makes that much difference. I'm just curious if anyone else has heard this or not and if it impacts purchasing decisions.
Basically, what he tells me is that when a guitar manufacturer, such as Fender, gets its shipment of wood in they have inspectors search through the material and determine the quality of the wood. The finest quality wood is used to make natural finish guitars (makes sense), second best is used for sunburst guitars (also makes sense), the third tier is used to make white guitars because imperfections are easy to see through white finishes (okay), then the rest of the wood is used to make all the other colors except black...
Then, after they have painted a guitar red or blue or whatever, if imperfections in the wood are still visible, they repaint it black. So basically, a manufacturer never plans to make black guitars because there will be plenty of them by the time this process is finished.
The moral of his story was, especially if you plan to pay a lot of money for guitar, that you should always buy natural, sunburst, or at least white to ensure you're getting the best quality wood for your money.
This actually makes perfect sense if you're buying an acoustic guitar. The wood quality is what defines the sound of an acoustic. Unless you're just a massive Johnny Cash fan, I'd never pay thousands of dollars for a painted Martin... The Johnny Cash Signature Black Martin D-35 retails for $4,599 btw 
Is this complete BS or is this something valid to actually take into consideration if you are investing in an expensive guitar? Does anyone here take this into account when buying high dollar guitars?
— Kevin
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IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10331
southern Michigan
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Posted on Feb 26 2014 01:29 PM
I think they choose the wood on the basis of looks when deciding which one is going to go for what finish - but looks and sound quality are most definitely not the same! The wood that may be plain or even have imperfections may sound really great. So, I'm not sure your theory holds together completely. Sorry. 
— Ivan
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ncgalt1984
Joined: Nov 27, 2013
Posts: 235
Greenville, NC
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Posted on Feb 26 2014 01:40 PM
Yeah, not my theory  Just something I heard. I've personally never purchased a guitar with this reasoning. I was just wondering if anyone else thinks there's something to it.
— Kevin
The Out of Limits
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crumble
Joined: Sep 09, 2008
Posts: 3158
Guildford England
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Posted on Feb 26 2014 01:50 PM
There's a few of these "how it's made" videos on youtube which are totally fascinating to me.
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Noel
Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 8528
Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.
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Posted on Feb 26 2014 01:50 PM
I've read that story too, and most recently about which Bass VI's get Sunburst and which are painted opaque colors. I honestly can't verify it beyond my personal experience with my own two Squier VM guitars.
I bought both at my local guitar store, who got them from Musical Instrument Reclamation Corporation (M.I.R.C.) and they are terrific guitars in every way. The reason Fender didn't retail them is they were painted in transparent finishes which allowed minor blemishes in the wood to show through. They were rejected at final inspection only for that reason. MIRC said they found nothing actually wrong with the guitars, and neither did Paul before he let me take them.
— This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.
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Big_Ryan
Joined: May 01, 2011
Posts: 578
San Diego
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Posted on Feb 26 2014 02:25 PM
this is probably mostly true as far as wood looks go, but its pretty debatable that a wood that looks the best will be a wood that sounds the best
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ncgalt1984
Joined: Nov 27, 2013
Posts: 235
Greenville, NC
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Posted on Feb 26 2014 02:29 PM
Wanting really high quality wood for an acoustic makes sense to me. I can't see that it would make much difference in an electric except for cosmetic purposes.
That's a cool vid Crumble. Thanks for sharing. I visited the Gibson factory last year while I was in Memphis. It was pretty cool to see some of the machines. My mistake was that I went on the tour during lunch so most of the workers weren't around. On the plus side, I took a selfie of me in the Gibson factory wearing a Martin shirt 
— Kevin
The Out of Limits
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https://theoutoflimits.bandcamp.com/
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websurfer
Joined: May 14, 2007
Posts: 1753
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Posted on Feb 26 2014 02:52 PM
ncgalt1984 wrote:
Wanting really high quality wood for an acoustic makes sense to me. I can't see that it would make much difference in an electric except for cosmetic purposes.
Except if by "quality" that also includes the lightest weight and most resonant body blanks. This could be more than a cosmetic issue. Painted guitars can use 3 or 4 (or more?) glued together pieces. That is also a factor not mentioned.
Last edited: Feb 26, 2014 14:56:24
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Hammond101
Joined: Feb 22, 2013
Posts: 342
SoCal USA
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Posted on Feb 26 2014 05:27 PM
Rejects get painted black? I call BS on that. Maybe at one time but not today. I've owned many black guitars and worked on dozens of others. I've seen a lot of missing black paint and none, zero, had another color underneath.
Black is hard to paint. It shows every imperfection in prep work. The body must be very well sealed and very flat for black to look good.
A defective body today at the factories I've toured, Fender, Taylor, Gibson, gets sawed up and tossed in the recycle bin. Not so much at Gibson however due to the glue in necks. They have a rework program and also sell B stock or at least they did.
— Keep it Drippy Brothers and Sisters!
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wfoguy
Joined: Dec 11, 2011
Posts: 2136
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Posted on Feb 26 2014 06:35 PM
I watched the video and part 2. Interesting.
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craftsmangp
Joined: Sep 01, 2012
Posts: 85
Lake Elsinore
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Posted on Feb 26 2014 06:59 PM
Please define "imperfection" for me. As someone who works with wood alot, I find that there is nothing better than the characteristics which define the wood, in itself.
Do you mean clear and free of knots? That would be my first choice for paint of any color.
If you mean knotted, cranky and showing of age, that would be my choice for clear coat.
My sons Jag has the most beautiful knot at the lower body, I was most pleased to give it to him for his birthday. This was on a burst finish.
But I'm a wood guy 
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Noel
Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 8528
Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.
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Posted on Feb 26 2014 07:00 PM
wfoguy wrote:
I watched the video and part 2. Interesting.
Did you look at the gallery of repairs? MIRC get stuff that comes off the boat without electronics, has busted necks, scratches, damaged bodies, all of it. They also get mechanically perfect guitars with nothing more than almost imperceptible blemishes in the finish or wood, like the two I got. They also have a training program for customers (music store owners) that teaches their repair techniques. Paul says going on a factory tour is like a guitarist's dream.
But Fender rarely send MIRC an actual Fender electric guitar - normally only Fender acoustics and Squiers.
 Wrong video.  This just isn't my day! 
— This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.
Last edited: Feb 26, 2014 19:07:09
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Noel
Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 8528
Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.
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Posted on Feb 26 2014 07:23 PM
craftsmangp wrote:
Please define "imperfection" for me. As someone who works with wood alot, I find that there is nothing better than the characteristics which define the wood, in itself.
Do you mean clear and free of knots? That would be my first choice for paint of any color.
If you mean knotted, cranky and showing of age, that would be my choice for clear coat.
My sons Jag has the most beautiful knot at the lower body, I was most pleased to give it to him for his birthday. This was on a burst finish.
But I'm a wood guy
This is my Bass VI. It was among the very first shipped to the US and it went straight to MIRC. Fender rejected it for retail because of the way the wood looked after staining. But I think it's gorgeous and has a lot of character. To me, personally, it would have been a shame to bury this much color under paint. The back is like a western sunset. I'm glad MIRC decided not to paint it, but offer it looking just as they got it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this guitar.
— This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.
Last edited: Feb 26, 2014 19:50:00
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craftsmangp
Joined: Sep 01, 2012
Posts: 85
Lake Elsinore
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Posted on Feb 26 2014 08:43 PM
Here is my sons Jag ...
These were supposed to be affordable guitars, even back in the day. What works of art they are, at least in my opinion. Paint be damned!
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Noel
Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 8528
Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.
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Posted on Feb 26 2014 08:49 PM
Gorgeous.
— This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.
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ncgalt1984
Joined: Nov 27, 2013
Posts: 235
Greenville, NC
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Posted on Feb 26 2014 10:28 PM
I didn't really believe him either. That's why I asked. Those are really nice looking guitars. I'm not sure what he meant exactly by imperfections (if it's just a cosmetic/personal opinion thing).
Some Martin D-28s can be found with what's called "bear claw spruce". Old timers say it's the result of a bear clawing a young tree and then the tree heals and grows resulting in strange patters in the wood. You can see bear claw in this picture. It looks like scratches in the finish at first but it is just the grain pattern.
I like the uniqueness of the bear claw patterns. Some are very beautiful. I've owned 3 Martins. One of them was bear clawed and it was a wonderful guitar.
— Kevin
The Out of Limits
www.facebook.com/theoutoflimitsband
https://theoutoflimits.bandcamp.com/
Last edited: Feb 26, 2014 22:39:28
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ncgalt1984
Joined: Nov 27, 2013
Posts: 235
Greenville, NC
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Posted on Feb 26 2014 10:42 PM
Here's a really nice example of bear claw spruce.
— Kevin
The Out of Limits
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https://theoutoflimits.bandcamp.com/
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Staredge
Joined: Sep 27, 2008
Posts: 1149
Damascus, Maryland
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Posted on Feb 26 2014 10:53 PM
I just bought a Taylor 110 off of CL. I was surprised to see the bear claw in the top (which is solid spruce). I love it.
— Will
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ncgalt1984
Joined: Nov 27, 2013
Posts: 235
Greenville, NC
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Posted on Feb 27 2014 06:23 AM
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BJB
Joined: Jul 28, 2008
Posts: 413
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Posted on Feb 28 2014 12:42 AM
Going back to the original post, it sounds like someone has some natural finish guitars they need to unload. The fact that black guitars exist with no other color underneath shoots down the story.
— If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
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