Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4536
Wisconsin
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Posted on Jan 22 2014 04:34 PM
This post is first to thank all those who've contributed their ideas & workarounds to this forum. I have discovered (thankfully) how far we've come from the well-meaning friend taking their little portable cassette recorder to the bar with its dictaphone style mic hung over a false-ceiling brace. This recording software stuff is pretty neat. I can absolutely see how using this stuff in a collaborative fashion helps bands keep putting music out while members have their other lives to handle (day job, session gigs, family commitments & other real life) (Noel's SG101 virtual band is a neat idea.)
The last 36 hrs have kinda morphed from a simple question to Crazy Aces* here http://surfguitar101.com/forums/topic/19633/ and some good insight kindly shared by Noel about alternative portable recording methods. I have neither need nor resources to go iPad & other stuff, but my PSYOPS branch can sell a TASCAM DR-05 to the Admiral because of its uses in getting decent recordings of grandkids' recitals, etc.
So this morning with Noel's suggestion I took the camera & recorded a couple of different play-alongs with "Invasion of Malibu" and practiced getting the audio into Audacity & trimming it & exporting to an MP3. Neat stuff. Some things I learned:
- I suck. Much work to do.
- Even with the cheapest of microphones, placement changes things even when trying to get a simple mono signal from "the room." Experimentation is encouraged. (Can't wait to get this little TASCAM.)
- What sounds bright in the room to me at practice level won't cut it when trying to mix it en masse into another band's full signal. My Strat has 2 regular Duncan Alnico-II HB's (not the slash thing) on a super switch & gets some really nice tones, including the middle both-HB position which is a great noodling around. Wrong. Too much & muddied up the OD I have set up for just a little gnarl. Solution was to select the 2 split outboard coils (less output, more clarity) and then compensate with the FAT switch on amp (where the mids are scooped a bit anyway). I am reminded why I prefer single coils because they tell fewer lies.
- It's been some decades since I had to be that focused & being totally/no-excuses "in the song" for a couple of minutes, do some other stuff, and then do it again; so this was a great reminder. I think that recording oneself from time to time is a great practice aid. (see #1 above)
- My little modded Blues Jr. sounds pretty damn good actually. I have happy feet.
- Speaking of feet, padding around in retired stocking-feet while it's -20° F outside reminds me why I used to prefer simple canvas sneakers on stage; they're light-weight & pedals don't laugh at you when you try to engage them.
So a big THANK YOU to all for their forum input, which creates great threads, that respond when folks use the search engine. SG101 is a great place to hang and I'm grateful for it.
- After relating the slide-whistle resolution to my midwest-born wife she decided I was the most deprived child on the planet growing up in the San Fernando Valley, but never actually owning a slide whistle. She suspects some parents were terrified of being driven nuts - so a piano appeared instead 50 years ago. 2014 grand-kid Christmas stockings are going to be stuffed with these things - just one of the perks of being a grandpa, mwahahahahaha. Wife tells me that the simple plastic ones still work the best, kinda like the Telecaster of slide whistles I guess.
Salud!
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
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Noel
Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 8528
Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.
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Posted on Jan 22 2014 08:13 PM
This makes my day. It's why sg101 is so wonderful; the people here are terrific.
BTW Wes, I want to see home video of Christmas morning with all those slide whistles being played.
— This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.
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Brian
Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Posts: 19297
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Posted on Jan 22 2014 08:32 PM
Thanks, glad you are having fun here, it's ultimately what this site is all about.
— Site dude - S3 Agent #202
Need help with the site? SG101 FAQ - Send me a private message - Email me
"It starts... when it begins" -- Ralf Kilauea
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Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4536
Wisconsin
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Posted on Jan 22 2014 08:48 PM
Noel wrote:
This makes my day. It's why sg101 is so wonderful; the people here are terrific.
BTW Wes, I want to see home video of Christmas morning with all those slide whistles being played.
After one little fledgling effort used to tinker with the software I have mucho respect for people that mix & sync tracks all the time. Holy milliseconds matter Batman!
On the video, you got it. I don't wait till the last minute; I work on stocking-stuffers throughout the year. It will be outta hand. It is our job to feed them lots of desserts, give them noisy toys, and then send them home. Their parents call it revenge; I call it a perk.
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
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CrazyAces
Joined: Jul 31, 2012
Posts: 4053
Nashville, TN.
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Posted on Jan 22 2014 09:22 PM
Glad I helped start trouble! LOL
My wife and I are childless by choice but we totally love buying drum sets, harmonicas and such for our friends' and families kids........
— http://www.facebook.com/CrazyAcesMusic
http://www.youtube.com/user/crazyacesrock
http://www.reverbnation.com/crazyacesmusic
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Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4536
Wisconsin
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Posted on Jan 23 2014 01:09 PM
CrazyAces wrote:
Glad I helped start trouble! LOL
My wife and I are childless by choice but we totally love buying drum sets, harmonicas and such for our friends' and families kids........
LOL. You know, that's a great thing, because it makes a difference. Our daughter spent 5 of last 10 yrs in the mountains of A'stan, but was a commo person and, I swear, when she took a break to shop for nieces & nephews after finagling an internet connection, she could go mentally right to "little kid" mode and always knew exactly what to get. It makes a difference 'cause there are lots worse things for kids to do than make music. Ya just never know...
Just got my Birth of Surf comp in the mail and there's some awesome room in there for some sax kazoo work by a motivated youngster. The coming year is gonna be interesting.
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
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Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4536
Wisconsin
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Posted on Jan 25 2014 08:29 PM
An equipment question for those who may remember the predicament. I was leaning toward a little DR-05 just for fooling around but my initial exercises at playing with the software reveal I really want a decent mic on the amp, not just something for the room. So I'm leaning a bit toward picking up a handful of DRI mics (off-shore clone of the SM57, get ok reviews) and a little 4-chan mixer (w/USB capability).
Anyone willing to share their preferences on such a mixer? Having a couple of the inputs being already low-Z is appealing, but I can deal with doing impedance matching if need be for the mics. Seems I could do some mics & a little mixer for only a tad more than the DR-05, so just looking for opinions. (I may still get the DR anyway 'cause the portability factor of such a thing isn't to be ignored; live music, grandkid recitals, etc.)
Thanks for your insights.
(and muchas gracias Noel for your assessments)
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
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Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4536
Wisconsin
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Posted on Jan 27 2014 11:48 AM
Badger wrote:
(I may still get the DR anyway 'cause the portability factor of such a thing isn't to be ignored; live music, grandkid recitals, etc.)
(and muchas gracias Noel for your assessments)
FYI, for those who don't care about the color, GC has the "vintage gold" version of this for $69.99 today. MF matched, so I scored. Battlefields littered with those waiting on "perfect" - I mean, it's not SFG, but this is likely to be a notable step up from a camera's mic of any color.
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
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Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4536
Wisconsin
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Posted on Feb 21 2014 04:49 PM
Some other stuff learned (or re-learned) thus far:
-
Working out & laying down a very steady rhythm track is at least as demanding as a solo or melody; it's part of the song, you need to know & be able to put it out there. And it should support the song for those times when it's best just to let the song 'breathe' (my word for it).
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I already knew the theory of electrical latency; still working on that latent knucklehead with the guitar in hand. Focus Daniel-san, focus.
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Having the time of my life and, with multi-tracks available, always leave 20 sec somewhere for #1 genius grand-daughter's kazoo solo.
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Especially with rudimentary PC-based mixing software "amplify" isn't the last word in getting something heard. Quite often "less is more" - cliche, but true. Instead of boosting a melody line, sometimes just backing the other stuff down even just a couple dB brings things forward nicely. (Which also helps avoid clipping, which will really rear its ugly head when mixed down to an mp3 file.
-
Finally something I'd forgotten from gigging days but which, fortunately, my soulmate of 30+ years, who went through all that with me & was a keen observer, didn't:
"OMG, WTH happened to my tone? It's all down in the mud, what's going on with the amp/my baby?, here, plug in the JM, no, sounds great, must be the guitar, OMG WTH happened with the Strat?, it's lost its mojo, here, there's some nice 57/62's on a loaded pickguard for not too much, OMG WTH am I gonna do?"
Wife (while peeling an orange & not even looking up): "You been playin' alot lately; when was the last time you changed your strings?"
Have fun folks; I sure the hell am.
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
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stratdancer
Joined: Dec 11, 2013
Posts: 2537
Akron, Ohio
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Posted on Feb 22 2014 07:08 AM
Badger wrote:
Some other stuff learned (or re-learned) thus far:
-
Working out & laying down a very steady rhythm track is at least as demanding as a solo or melody; it's part of the song, you need to know & be able to put it out there. And it should support the song for those times when it's best just to let the song 'breathe' (my word for it).
-
I already knew the theory of electrical latency; still working on that latent knucklehead with the guitar in hand. Focus Daniel-san, focus.
-
Having the time of my life and, with multi-tracks available, always leave 20 sec somewhere for #1 genius grand-daughter's kazoo solo.
-
Especially with rudimentary PC-based mixing software "amplify" isn't the last word in getting something heard. Quite often "less is more" - cliche, but true. Instead of boosting a melody line, sometimes just backing the other stuff down even just a couple dB brings things forward nicely. (Which also helps avoid clipping, which will really rear its ugly head when mixed down to an mp3 file.
-
Finally something I'd forgotten from gigging days but which, fortunately, my soulmate of 30+ years, who went through all that with me & was a keen observer, didn't:
"OMG, WTH happened to my tone? It's all down in the mud, what's going on with the amp/my baby?, here, plug in the JM, no, sounds great, must be the guitar, OMG WTH happened with the Strat?, it's lost its mojo, here, there's some nice 57/62's on a loaded pickguard for not too much, OMG WTH am I gonna do?"
Wife (while peeling an orange & not even looking up): "You been playin' alot lately; when was the last time you changed your strings?"
Have fun folks; I sure the hell am.
My last recording featured a strat on the lead track. I found that on this track and the other Kahuna Kings song that my jag sounded perfect without any fuss but the strat wasn't as easily coaxed and I fussed with mic placement and post EQ quite a bit more.
— The Kahuna Kings
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447
https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases
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Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4536
Wisconsin
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Posted on Feb 22 2014 07:41 AM
Thanks for that; playing around with a Jag that was in my hands for 24 hours I've decided it needs to find a permanent home so it'll be back. Nothing sounds like a Jag but a Jag.
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
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CrazyAces
Joined: Jul 31, 2012
Posts: 4053
Nashville, TN.
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Posted on Feb 22 2014 11:15 AM
Wes,
It's so great you're enjoying your return to making music again. I can relate in that Crazy Aces was started as a sort of "coming back" to music and guitar for Fun, after leaving the professional arena. Through the years I've gotten a better understanding of many things you mentioned, although I'm still no expert, especially at recording.
"Working out & laying down a very steady rhythm track is at least as demanding as a solo or melody; it's part of the song, you need to know & be able to put it out there. And it should support the song for those times when it's best just to let the song 'breathe' (my word for it)."
Agree completely. In the guitar world there is usually too much focus on the lead tracks or parts. The rhythm drives the song and frames the melody. Many, many guitar players come to Nashville as shredders with too much focus on lead guitar and then fall apart when it come to a solid rhythm....with a groove. Rhythm parts are often viewed by guitar players as secondary and that couldn't be further from the truth.
"Especially with rudimentary PC-based mixing software "amplify" isn't the last word in getting something heard. Quite often "less is more" - cliche, but true. Instead of boosting a melody line, sometimes just backing the other stuff down even just a couple dB brings things forward nicely. (Which also helps avoid clipping, which will really rear its ugly head when mixed down to an mp3 file."
This is true in any recording medium. Good source sounds are everything. I try to record sounds so that they need as little or no EQ at all but I also use different instruments with different frequency ranges for different parts to separate them sonically. Sure, I could track a whole record with one guitar and it's done all the time with wonderful results, but I find it easier to use a few different guitars (or more,LOL) to create different voices. Also, don't forget panning, if in stereo. Putting sounds in a proper position can work wonders for separation or emphasis of a part and last but not least.....remember that each instrument should have a sonic "home" as far as it's natural frequencies. Think like an orchestra. If you take guitar bass and drums and use them for their natural frequencies it can be stunning how well and balanced a mix can be. This is usually screwed up by guitarists adjusting their amps, guitars to have too much thump and low end. Sounds great by yourself, in a room, but makes it much more difficult to fit in a mix and guess what? Whoever (you, me, or an engineer) is mixing the music is going to remove all those low frequencies from your sound because............that's where the Bass lives!
"Having the time of my life and, with multi-tracks available, always leave 20 sec somewhere for #1 genius grand-daughter's kazoo solo."
ALWAYS.......leave room for a kazoo solo, especially one performed by your grand-daughter!!
Creating music is a wonderful thing, isn't it?
Hope some of that helps, if not just ignore. Like I said, I'm no expert, LOL
— http://www.facebook.com/CrazyAcesMusic
http://www.youtube.com/user/crazyacesrock
http://www.reverbnation.com/crazyacesmusic
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Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4536
Wisconsin
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Posted on Feb 22 2014 11:39 AM
CrazyAces wrote:
Hope some of that helps, if not just ignore. Like I said, I'm no expert, LOL
That helps alot, thanks! As to the last comment, well, "all evidence to the contrary" as the saying goes. Especially the tip about voicing the instruments in their proper places. Even a bright comfort in the room solo isn't enough; I just cranked some Kahuna Kings through the speakers, rolled the bass back about 3 notches on the amp & it's like having a whole 'nuther tool in the box. Nothing else changed. W O W
I owe you some 
Edit: Winter storms, argghh! Now if my tank will get here, which has been taking Fedex's Lewis & Clark Expedition tour of the country, we'll be livin' large.
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
Last edited: Feb 22, 2014 12:04:58
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