ToneBoy
Joined: Feb 17, 2007
Posts: 281
Murfreesboro, TN
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Posted on Apr 09 2007 11:16 AM
You pose an interesting question. For me, I'm rarely totally satisfied with my play and constantly look for ways to improve. Since there are not many surf players in this city, I look to the session musicians I know to study their technique or to ask questions. I guess one of the biggest lessons I've learned in the years I've been playing is that no matter how good you get, there will always be someone better. I think that's why the truly gifted players I know are so humble about their talent. I'm not saying that I will ever quit trying to better myself in terms of technique or musicianship but I don't get so hung up over it anymore. Besides, its like anything else... you get out of it what you put in to it. So the more practice and live performance you put under your belt, the better you become.
— Ron (ToneBoy)
The Mariners (1964 to Present) www.myspace.com/themarinersfirstwave
Lonzo & Oscar (1999 to Present) www.lonzoandoscar.net
www.myspace.com/lonzoandoscarcomedy
Billy Henson & Summerstorm (2001 to Present)
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badash
Joined: Aug 18, 2006
Posts: 1732
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Posted on Apr 09 2007 12:01 PM
I read an interview of Buddy Guy in a guitar magazine recently. I only buy them at airports when I'm desperate for something to read because I have no clue about the current music scene and don't want to know how to play songs by bands called Darkness Falls, Shadows Fall, As I Lay Dying, Between the Buried and Me... Geeze guys have a glass of orange juice and get out in the sunlight... You'll feel better!
Anyway, Buddy said that the most important thing you can do is play with other musicians because they will hear those tiny incremental improvements in your playing you don't. He said many times especially before he "made" it, he would want to throw his guitar in the corner becasue he felt he was only playing that same old set of pentatonic licks, and only someone who he regularly jammed with saying something like "whoa man, what was that little thing you did after the turnaround?" when he didn't even know he was doing anything different than that same old Muddy Waters lick. Also a good reason to record your live playing and jams and listen back, no matter how painful it sounds...
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Surfgitar
Joined: Mar 16, 2007
Posts: 1342
Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
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Posted on Apr 09 2007 01:39 PM
Amen mom_surfing. It's all about the VIBE.
— CUTBACK
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JeffLeites
Joined: Mar 27, 2006
Posts: 343
North Hollywood, California
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Posted on Apr 09 2007 03:58 PM
Nothing makes me feel better about my playing than seeing one of my Heros goof up 
— My Web Site - Tunes - Pictures - Guitar Projects - Hard Rock Cafe Guitar Pins
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tenderfoot
Joined: Feb 01, 2007
Posts: 308
Ellicott City, Maryland
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Posted on Apr 09 2007 04:13 PM
JeffLeites
Nothing makes me feel better about my playing than seeing one of my Heros goof up
Not that these are heroes, but I remember Phil Collins hitting the wrong note on the piano at Live Aid back in the eighties, and there was Eric Clapton's guitar falling off the strap during the Last Waltz concert. I'm sure there are many other examples.
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Surfabilly
Joined: Apr 21, 2006
Posts: 852
Connersville, Indiana, USA
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Posted on Apr 09 2007 06:05 PM
All kidding aside, the songs that I know have come to me in one of three ways: 1) listen and try to pick it out; 2) make a mistake while practicing a song (how I got my "Smoke On The Aqualung" bit, for trying out guitars); 3) "catch" a familiar riff or two, during a stream of conscious jam, and pursue it further. As has already been said, there's no right or wrong way to go about it, and I'll admit that sometimes it takes me several tries to pick something out; and especially if I'm trying from memory (without having a copy of the song readily handy, to listen to).
Being self taught, there's probably a lot of songs that I'll play "wrong" (different notes/chords from the original), but I tend to not worry so long as folks recognize it as what I'm intending to play. Oh sure I could do better, and the songs that I play a little better than others are, more likely, the ones that I favor when I do practice/jam. I only get slightly embarrassed, whenever I'm playing for somebody/folks are listening, and I bobble a phrase or miss a transition, due to lack of practice. Whenever that happens, my reaction tends to be "oops...gotta practice that part, some more," or "oops...didn't realize it'd been this long since I've played this."
Matt
— Fast Cars & Loud Guitars!
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JeffLeites
Joined: Mar 27, 2006
Posts: 343
North Hollywood, California
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Posted on Apr 09 2007 07:25 PM
Surfabilly
Being self taught, there's probably a lot of songs that I'll play "wrong" (different notes/chords from the original), but I tend to not worry so long as folks recognize it as what I'm intending to play.
Matt
Unless you are in a tribute band and trying to do an exact copy of someone's tune, as originally recorded, I don't see anything wrong with doing your own arrangement.
I just learned to play Squad Car by listening to the Hodads, then I listened to PJ play it, and it was noticeably different.. Doh!!! I like them both, I'll just combine elements of both, and throw in some twists of my own.  I'll screw it up anyway 
— My Web Site - Tunes - Pictures - Guitar Projects - Hard Rock Cafe Guitar Pins
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Apr 09 2007 07:56 PM
I play Squad Car differently. Added a pretty cool part.
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Fez
Joined: Mar 22, 2006
Posts: 197
Florida
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Posted on Apr 09 2007 09:28 PM
I thought I would chime in with an interesting perspective from a drummer...
The Intoxicators! played a show with Agent Orange back in January... Dusty Watson played the drums better than anyone that I have ever seen live...
Anyway, I was talking to him at some point during the night and somehow we started talking about Southern Culture on The Skids and how Dave Hartman plays the drums standing up... and Dusty said... I don't think that I could play the drums standing up... and then went on to explain the mechanics of why he thought that...
This absolutely blew my mind... I've played standing up before and it's pretty easy once you figure out your limitations with the hi hat... bass drum etc... So, I have no doubt that Dusty could play the drums standing up if he tried... and probably do a better job than most...
but the point is even the best musicians still think that they have some limitations in ability and room for improvement...
So basically it's the same thing as Toneboy said a few posts earlier...
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Surfabilly
Joined: Apr 21, 2006
Posts: 852
Connersville, Indiana, USA
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Posted on Apr 10 2007 06:28 PM
Fez
but the point is even the best musicians still think that they have some limitations in ability and room for improvement...
So basically it's the same thing as Toneboy said a few posts earlier...
Could it be that drive that wows audiences across the country/around the world? Whenever I screw up something, when I find myself playing for a few acquaintances/friends now and then, there's only a small kernel of truth in how I react to it...being the "oops, I goofed" part...otherwise, I'm not worried in the least. I still continue to strive to better myself, however, even if it means (finally) smoothing a transition I keep tripping over in ONE song.
Matt
— Fast Cars & Loud Guitars!
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crinolin
Joined: Jan 22, 2007
Posts: 14
Chicago
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Posted on Apr 11 2007 05:33 PM
I don't know how long Jake has been playing (perhaps I missed it somewhere in there) ....... but I just picked up guitar in December (barely 4 months ago) and I'm in my 30's (personally, I think I'm ageless) .... and I get quite impatient with myself as I watch family & friends around me who play really well ... effortlessly! But they've been playing for 10, 20, 30+ years!
And they all tell me that I'll get there if I keep practicing. One friend is 25, been playing since he was 13, and often reminds me that he runs into new challenges all the time .. if he's trying to play something new, or writing his own stuff, or playing super fast, so much that his arm is strained for days ...... so that's encouraging to me .. as is this thread and hearing everyone elses experiences with limitations and perceptions in regard to their own playing.
But I got the best advice from my friend when I told him I wanted to take up guitar and had questions like if I have to learn acoustic first or a particular style music starting out.... He basically said "You want to play electric, so just go play eletctric! You want to play surf stuff, then learn that!" Basically, just do it! .. like Guitar Wolf says 
So I'm just gonna keep practicing and I know it'll pay off because I love guitar and music so much and listen to stuff all the time and think "I want to do that! I want to just be able to be hanging out in my home and fckin' do that!"
Anyway, my buddy now says it's time for me to stop searching for tabs, too .. that I need to learn to play by ear. I have to keep the challenges coming ....
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crinolin
Joined: Jan 22, 2007
Posts: 14
Chicago
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Posted on Apr 13 2007 01:30 PM
Sorry, about the swearing guys ... I just get excited sometimes. But now I read the rules which said to keep the language clean ..... which is what I was sort of trying to do by adding the *.
And, Jake .... you're probably a lot better at playing than you think. We're always our worst critics. I'm sure you could kick MY butt in guitar
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Apr 14 2007 03:13 AM
I said in my original post I'm pretty good at guitar. I'm just really frustrated at how much more I need to work at music or what I can't pick up on ear like other people can.
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boyecho
Joined: Mar 05, 2006
Posts: 251
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Posted on Apr 14 2007 12:43 PM
i personally think i have a good ear. i played brass through middle and high school, and i've been playing guitar for 8 years.
good ear or not, i don't like playing other people's songs. i don't think i have anything to add. i learned a few songs here and there by tab that i couldn't figure out myself, but i havent touched a piece of tab in over 6 years.
my limitations now are i only know maybe two styles i'm comfortable with. surf and ambient.
this makes it incredibly hard to jam with other people. it makes it even harder to be the sole guitarist in a band.
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DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11046
Berkeley, CA
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Posted on Apr 14 2007 01:25 PM
Boyecho, Playing other people's songs is not all about what you bring to the song, it's also about perpetuating good music, keeping it alive. The musical equivalent of the 'oral tradition'. Your potential audience is most likely not going to have heard most surf songs anyway, and certainly the records don't sell much.
You don't have to join a cover band, but if you want to play with others you need somewhere to start. A list of songs, burned on CD's and charted out, given to potential band mates, makes for a much more productive first few practices. There's no time limit on a band, eventually you can switch to entirely originals.
$.02
— Danny Snyder
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party
Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF
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wooza
Joined: Apr 24, 2006
Posts: 1618
Ithaca, NY
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Posted on Apr 14 2007 07:41 PM
I wouldn't at all want to be in a cover band--I think it's a lot cooler to play your own songs over somebody else's, but I do think that covers still hold their own importance. I've recently been trying to pen my own songs, but I've gotten frustrated as of late with the same general formula that I keep finding my melodies falling into. So I've decided to put my own writing on hiatus and instead I'm just gonna teach myself a lot more covers to get a better feel for the general mechanics of surf guitar playing. I'm not trying to offer anything new with them, but instead use them just to get a better and broader sense of what works, technically and musically.
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WaimeaBay
Joined: Jul 05, 2006
Posts: 969
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Posted on Apr 14 2007 09:20 PM
What pisses me off (about my own playing) is what people like Messina did as a teenager, when I still can't play nearly as good as him and probably will never be able to. Some people are just prodigies, plain and simple. We regular folks have to practice hard.
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DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11046
Berkeley, CA
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Posted on Apr 14 2007 11:17 PM
Which completes the circle to my earlier reply about it's easier to build skills the younger you are. So all you youngin's out there - Start Practicing!
— Danny Snyder
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party
Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF
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Jon
Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Posts: 1076
Columbus, OH
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Posted on Apr 15 2007 03:09 PM
JakeDobner
I play Squad Car differently. Added a pretty cool part.
It's true.
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tonybologna
Joined: Mar 06, 2006
Posts: 796
Oakland
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Posted on Apr 16 2007 02:23 PM
Jon
JakeDobner
I play Squad Car differently. Added a pretty cool part.
It's true.
Are you guys connected at the hip?
— Science friction burns my fingers.
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