JakeDobner
I'm a little too set in my guitar ways to learn music from instruction books. And I don't really want to learn from instruction books. I know enough to teach myself. its putting my i knowledge into practice that is the problem.

I picked out the Misirlou solo yesterday on piano.

Jake then don't take up lessons same deal as an instruction book, like you said your set in your ways, just dedicate more time to your instrument, practice makes perfect

-Kyle

Beyond The Surf YouTube channel
Beyond The Surf Instagram
The Verbtones @ Instagram
The Verbtones @ Facebook
The Verbtones @ bandcamp

diceophonic, i wish i was still 47

i've been playing almost 8 years and honestly, i never, ever thought i'd get to where i am now. i just keep setting new goals for myself and aim towards them. there's always something new to learn.

www.surfintheeye.com

Kyle, I agree with everything you said (and it was well said) and I'm living proof of what you're describing. I'm twice the musician I was 2 years ago. I believe though that you missed my intent in my reply to Jake. I'm not talking about personally giving up out of frustration, and by 'shit' I didn't mean negative stuff, just everything.

Everyone has individual experiences, but generally speaking most life trajectories follow a common course. The independently wealthy can skip this. Starting with your late teens early 20's, with little responsiblities, your time is mostly taken up with school and/or work. You still live at home, or in a dorm/apt. where your expenses are either modest and within means or paid for by others. Short of winning the lottery you'll never have the luxury of time like this until you're much older or remain a bachelor(ette).

You hit your mid to late 20's and you're in a committed relationship, over the next 10 years you probably will have kids, buy a house, commit to a career, perhaps have to caretake other family members, etc... What often is first to get sacrificed to make time for those things? Personal interests/hobbies. Hell, many people I knew didn't have time to even read a book anymore let alone play an instrument. Then, how many of you experienced first or second hand the spouse who hated music (surf or in general) Happens more often than you think. (thankfully not me, I'm blessed with a surf fan for a wife) Eventually life slows down into your 40's and 50's and that's why you see so many older bands out there. Or hybrids, like me playing with a couple college students.

The truth is that we have no idea how Jake's life will turn out, he probably doesn't either. So why take the gamble that you may have time throughout your adulthood to learn? Learn now, while you can. That's my point.

'nuff said.

Danny Snyder

"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo

Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta

Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party

Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF

DannySnyder
Kyle, I agree with everything you said (and it was well said) and I'm living proof of what you're describing. I'm twice the musician I was 2 years ago. I believe though that you missed my intent in my reply to Jake. I'm not talking about personally giving up out of frustration, and by 'shit' I didn't mean negative stuff, just everything.

Everyone has individual experiences, but generally speaking most life trajectories follow a common course. The independently wealthy can skip this. Starting with your late teens early 20's, with little responsiblities, your time is mostly taken up with school and/or work. You still live at home, or in a dorm/apt. where your expenses are either modest and within means or paid for by others. Short of winning the lottery you'll never have the luxury of time like this until you're much older or remain a bachelor(ette).

You hit your mid to late 20's and you're in a committed relationship, over the next 10 years you probably will have kids, buy a house, commit to a career, perhaps have to caretake other family members, etc... What often is first to get sacrificed to make time for those things? Personal interests/hobbies. Hell, many people I knew didn't have time to even read a book anymore let alone play an instrument. Then, how many of you experienced first or second hand the spouse who hated music (surf or in general) Happens more often than you think. (thankfully not me, I'm blessed with a surf fan for a wife) Eventually life slows down into your 40's and 50's and that's why you see so many older bands out there. Or hybrids, like me playing with a couple college students.

The truth is that we have no idea how Jake's life will turn out, he probably doesn't either. So why take the gamble that you may have time throughout your adulthood to learn? Learn now, while you can. That's my point.

'nuff said.

Danny I get ya I have been there in lifes ups and downs even now and then, and in the present I'm married for 10 years, married @ age 20 I'm going to be 31 this June with three wonderful kids, job, band, surfing and I still have time for music, it has not changed much for me from then in my teens and late teens and early 20s, money life's crazy turns, schooling, living situation then and now was never an issue to keep me from music, mortgage, cars, bills up the ass and it's still that way never ending, even now if I didn't play guitar I would take up in a heart beat with all lifes bullshit ups and downs it's not going to stop me, even then as a teen life's crazy as it is and there was still time to focus on music, I just think it's one self's interpretation of then and of there up bringing and what it was like for them and that might not be the case for some, it might have been different for many of us growing up, I also think what has helped me along is the support of my parents and my father a musician in the hey days of surf and my wife being a musician her self singer, bass player, dancing instructor she has been such a blessing from day one, with my crazy schemes, bands and music, our kids play instruments our little girl plays piano, our son plays guitar, our youngest boy just grooves to any site and sound of music in the air "air guitar", our oldest is into surfing like pappa as well.

It's all good everyone has there nitch and itch for something in life.

-Kyle

Beyond The Surf YouTube channel
Beyond The Surf Instagram
The Verbtones @ Instagram
The Verbtones @ Facebook
The Verbtones @ bandcamp

I'm not literally depressed. I just notice that some people are amazing at music and that I wish it came as naturally as speaking.

So, you get less free time later in life? How is that possible. Is life going to suck that bad? I already don't have much free time.

So, you get less free time later in life? How is that possible. Is life going to suck that bad? I already don't have much free time.

Yes. Look at me, reduced to playing two nights a year. It sucks, but its also that much sweeter when it happens.
And its better than the five years we didn't play at all.

Also, back to the original thread. I SUCKED as a drummer (and still do to some degree), but I kept at it and found my strengths in other areas could help where I was inept as a player.
I also realized that in a genre like surf or rock n' roll for that matter that its your spirit, chutzpah, or SOUL that counts (once you can play a little). There are tons of musical geniuses out there that have no personality, don't have any records out, and have no friends.

http://www.satanspilgrims.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Satans-Pilgrims/8210228553
https://satanspilgrims.bandcamp.com/
http://www.surfyindustries.com

DannySnyder
Maybe it's just me, Badash, but when I visualize the elements of a chord I see a piano keyboard. Now, I've been playing guitar for 25 years and had 2 years of piano as a teenager. But for working on harmonies and picking out notes in complex chords, a keyboard is more straightforward. It's not necessary, but it gives the musician a wider perspective, imho.

It's not just you Danny. piano goes up in pitch left to right. Musical notation goes up in pitch "uphill" that whole "B to C" and "E to F" thing makes more sense on a keyboard. That's what I meant by Piano/Theory is a Chicken/Egg situation. They blend so well together you can almost pretend western music theory came after the piano. Chords on sheet music, and transposition, and substitutions... All that stuff moves from paper to keyboard almost effortlessly. Not quite the same with a guitar. The piano player never has to consider what position to use, and the tonal impact of that choice. They are just free to visiualize it in their minds clutter-free.

You will definitely be a better musician if you learn piano, or learn theory AT the piano. I took music theory in college for some electives. It tends to be taught on paper, at the piano, AND with voice if you get at all serious in it. It all makes more sense together if you have the time and incliniation.

All I'm saying is there are now some pretty intensive theory instruction systems based on guitar. You don't have to sit at a piano anymore to learn rudimentary music theory. Even some advanced stuff is available. If you can do it, go the keyboard route. If you can't, you can still learn some cool stuff. And I also agree. Younger is easier. As life comes at you it gets harder and harder to fit in theory study, fundamental technique practice (when's the last time you spent 30 minutes straight just on picking?), song practice, composition, etc., etc., etc... Wait till your parents become elderly... Shit does pileup...

I teach guitar and most of my best pupils are over 40 because they are doing it because they really want to. I'm often suprised by the lack of dedication shown by even some of the talented younger players.
Not like when I was younger when it was all I wanted to do.

I used to teach a 12 year old who could have been really good but he didn't really care about it. His dad wanted him to play and would say things to him like 'I'll give you £50 if you learn that Green Day song by next week' It's so weird when rock music has become something your parents try and get you to do against your will ..... just about the opposite to how it was for a lot of us..

http://www.myspace.com/thepashuns

Youth and enthusiasm are no match for age and treachery.

The only instrument anyone really has is their own ears; how good or bad your technique is irrelevant if you aren't paying attention to the end product.
The punks know this and, oddly, so did my classical guitar teacher when I was about 11 (and I think that was just about all he taught me, but I thank the man).

A while ago we did a gig, and I met the band that was playing first. Their bass player had a 6 string, and whilst warming up was playing it faster than I could play normal guitar! The rest of the band were all performing similar feats of wizardry while setting up and, I was privately concerned that we might be upstaged..
Imagine my relief when they turned out the most tedious unimaginitive indulgent over-complicated charisma-free pretensious idiot-rock the audience had ever heard.
I realised that despite my best intentions I'll never play like a pro, but then things could be so much worse even if I could..

Here's a theory. Perhaps it in not how good of bad you are as much as the progress you are making as an artist that determines the level of satisfaction with your playing. I suck and I know it, but I am learning stuff everyday, and I am satisfied. But, even if you are greatly skilled and you are learning nothing new or creating nothing new then you can feel unsatisfied with yourself as a musician. Even the top artists are subject to feeling this way, maybe more so....just a theory.