Photo of the Day
Shoutbox

dp: dude
354 days ago

Bango_Rilla: Shout Bananas!!
309 days ago

BillyBlastOff: See you kiddies at the Convention!
294 days ago

GDW: showman
245 days ago

Emilien03: https://losg...
166 days ago

Pyronauts: Happy Tanks-Kicking!!!
160 days ago

glennmagi: CLAM SHACK guitar
146 days ago

Hothorseraddish: surf music is amazing
125 days ago

dp: get reverberated!
76 days ago

Clint: “A Day at the Beach” podcast #237 is TWO HOURS of NEW surf music releases. https://link...
9 days ago

Please login or register to shout.

IRC Status
  • racc

Join them in the #ShallowEnd!

Need help getting started?

Current Polls

No polls at this time. Check out our past polls.

Current Contests

No contests at this time. Check out our past contests.

Donations

Help us meet our monthly goal:

14%

14%

Donate Now

Cake May Birthdays Cake
SG101 Banner

SurfGuitar101 Forums » Gear »

Permalink Recording with Five Pickup Guitar used for lead, 14 different pickup selections

New Topic
Page 1 of 1

This ("Relentless Squid") is a fast intense surf guitar recording. The lead guitar has five true single coil pickups. Fourteen different pickup selections were used (1, 2, or 3 pickups at a time). Each pickup selection was used for a passage lasting 13 seconds, and no pickup selection was repeated. The pickups were selected by using two 5-position switches. Each selection change was accomplished by using just one of these switches. Here is a link to the recording (currently downloadable gratis):
https://soundcloud.com/conswartz/5-pickups-relentless-squid

Nothing was adjusted along the course of the song except pickup selection, i.e., there were were no tone, EQ, or other changes. There was no overdrive effect. All pickups were high above the pickguard except #4 (between neck and middle) which was flush with the pickguard.

Each of the 14 pickup selections is interesting and useable. Some are surfy, others are both thick and trebly, some are jazzy, one combination is nasal, and of course several are hybrids. The guitar has 3 more pickup selections I did not use in this recording (total 17 switchable selections of 1, 2, or 3 pickups at a time).

Here is a link to a diagram of the pickup selections used along the course of the song:
http://www.mediafire.com/view/4f1g8rbe0umf8gp/5_pickup_layout.jpg

Corresponding to the 14 pickup selections used there are 14 sections in the song. After the intro (section 1) come four melodies that are repeated three times (sections 2 to 13). The repetitions generally incorporate variations, and sometimes melodies 3 and 4 are interchanged. The ending is of course the final section.

Here is a photo of my three five pickup guitars. They were ordinary S clones until I modded them. The bright red one was used on this recording. The pickups were made by four different manufacturers. On the green guitar the 5 pickups are from five different makers.

image

Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com

Last edited: Sep 25, 2013 10:21:40

Please feel free to comment on the recording or whatever.

Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com

Squid - freakin' awesome picking there! I counted 13 tones and lost count before the end. They were all very intriguing. Your playing and description are so systematic that the structure of it reminds me of Indian classical or piorbreacht Scottish classical piping

Squink Out!

C. Squid,
Can you tell us anything about the pickups you installed?
The cover of your album looks familiar. Who is the artist?

Squink Out!

JObeast wrote:

C. Squid,
Can you tell us anything about the pickups you installed?
The cover of your album looks familiar. Who is the artist?

Thanks for asking, and for the encouragement. For the front and rear CD covers (of "Wild Surf Guitars" CD) I took photos of an original painting I bought from local professional artist Devin Bernard. Devin gave permission. For the front cover I made a collage of a quarter of his painting with photos of a couple of my guitars, and I added lettering.

For the guitar I used 2 Samick pickups, a Carvin AP-11, a Wilkinson, and a generic direct from China via Ebay.

Since you asked, in my opinion about half the tone of each pickup comes from its position and the other half from its construction. Although they are all single coils they differ in tone enormously. Despite a low 4.3 KOhm impedance, the Carvin AP11 has a thick sound. The Samicks are surfy, the Wilkinson resembles the Carvin but with less treble, while the generic is exceedingly trebly and thin.

Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com

Last edited: Nov 09, 2013 21:22:04

This is the first time I've had an opportunity to listen without distractions. I feel all the tones are useful, even if not every one is "surfy". I even think the "bluesy" tones sounded good playing surf music, too. Interesting.

The combinations you didn't use, is that because they don't sound good?

That's quite a project. Congratulations!

This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.

Noel wrote:

This is the first time I've had an opportunity to listen without distractions. I feel all the tones are useful, even if not every one is "surfy". I even think the "bluesy" tones sounded good playing surf music, too. Interesting.

The combinations you didn't use, is that because they don't sound good?

That's quite a project. Congratulations!

Thanks for your thoughtful words, Noel.

The 14 combinations used mostly resulted from the plan to make each pickup selection change by moving only one of the two pickup selection switches. Another plan was not using pickup 4 (between neck & middle) alone. Pickup 4 was vertically flush with the pickguard to use only in combination, at a volume lower than other pickups. This enhanced bass nicely and mellowed treble a little (and left far more treble than when pickup 4 was at full height).

Switch #1 operates per usual among bridge, middle, and neck PUs. I interchanged bridge and middle connections to get bridge + neck combo in place of middle + neck. Output from switch #1 flows to switch #2.

Switch #2 operates per usual with currents from pickups 2 and 4 and the outflow from switch #1. I can choose any of these three currents separately, or a combination of the outflow from switch #1 with either of pickup 2 or 4.

It is much easier to hear all the changes at medium or high volume. At low volume some changes may seem subtle. At higher volume they are clear.

Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com

Last edited: Sep 28, 2013 12:12:44

Squid, I closely (2'nd row-center right in front of him) watched Jeff Hanna play his Strat last night on several songs. (He used a LOT of guitars last night!) He never stopped switching pickups and adjusting his volume. At first I thought it was because the tech didn't set it correctly before handing Jeff the guitar and he couldn't hear himself. But the more I watched, Jeff repeated the same adjustments regularly for specific sections of whichever song he was playing. He used positions 1,3 & 4, going between them and changing volume each time he switched.

If I tried that, I'd forget what to play. Big Grin Does your 5-pickup setup make it easy for you to accomplish the same thing Jeff worked so constantly at? Thanks!

This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.

Last edited: Sep 28, 2013 15:17:28

Noel wrote:

Squid, I closely (2'nd row-center right in front of him) watched Jeff Hanna play his Strat last night on several songs. (He used a LOT of guitars last night!) He never stopped switching pickups and adjusting his volume. At first I thought it was because the tech didn't set it correctly before handing Jeff the guitar and he couldn't hear himself. But the more I watched, Jeff repeated the same adjustments regularly for specific sections of whichever song he was playing. He used positions 1,3 & 4, going between them and changing volume each time he switched.

If I tried that, I'd forget what to play. Big Grin Does your 5-pickup setup make it easy for you to accomplish the same thing Jeff worked so constantly at? Thanks!

That's a fun question Noel. In this particular recording I did not change tone, EQ, or anything other than pickup selection during the song. I completed modifying this guitar only recently. Selecting the pickups and combinations I prefer is simple and easy to remember with this two switch method.

This recording marks the initiation of my intent to vary pickup selection during many songs. By doing the extreme in one recording I should start making occasional changes.

For surf lead guitar most of my guitars have only one appropriate pickup selection; a few guitars have two. This is my first guitar to have many appropriate pickup selections.

As you say, the more complications you use in a performance, the more easily you can become sidetracked or forgetful. Also the risk of Dreaded Mind Blanking increases. Jeff Hanna's complexities are probably stabilized by repetition.

Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com

Last edited: Sep 28, 2013 16:44:41

This video I just put on YouTube shows which pickups are on as the song progresses. The audio starts 10 seconds into the video.

http://youtu.be/cwNebC08S50

This audio is clearer and prettier than previous mixdowns.

Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com

Thanks! That's a great visual. Is every other pickup reversed for bucking hum when adjoining pickups are selected?

This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.

Noel wrote:

Thanks! That's a great visual. Is every other pickup reversed for bucking hum when adjoining pickups are selected?

That's a good question, especially because adjacent pickups are so close. Another question is if any pairs of pickups are out of phase with each other. Both matters are more complex because pickups from different manufacturers were used together, and pickups were taken from sets.

I did not account for either phenomenon and do not know. I think I could use a spare pickup to examine each pickup and find which pairs are reversed and which not. If I succeed at this I will post the results here.

Regarding phase, the nasal quality of combining pickups 2 and 5 suggests they're out of phase. However this is not consistent with the results of other combinations because no other pair sounds out of phase.

Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com

Here are the pickup polarities I found:

Pickup: == Neck(5) ==== 4th ===== Middle(3) ===== 2nd ====== Bridge(first)
Polarity:= Reverse ==== Forward == Forward ===== Forward === Reverse

I consider this fortunate. This is because combinations of 2 pickups are matched between either bridge or neck and any of the three middle pickups.

Pickup #2 (Carvin AP11) is said to sound like a Mosrite. Compared to the other pickups it sounds thicker.

What I called "Reverse" polarity is probably the same as most bridge pickups have.

Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com

Last edited: Nov 03, 2013 16:39:04

Thanks, Conrad.

This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.

On the video pickup #2 (the black one) has phase opposite to the other pickups. This is why the two pickup combinations with it sound so different from other 2 pickup combinations. Manufacturers differ as to which phase they connect to positive and ground. When combining pickups from different manufacturers in one guitar some can have opposite phase even though all grounds were handled consistently.

To reverse the phase reversal simply interchange positive and ground leads from the reversed pickup. This means combining the apparent positive wire from the reversed pickup with the ground and negative wires from the other pickups, and vice-versa.

The phase reversal of the black pickup was partially obscured by its greater volume than the other pickups.

Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com

Last edited: Nov 09, 2013 21:19:42

Hey this is pretty cool! Thanks for sharing!

It's easy to install a phase-reverse switch for any pickup using a DPDT slider. Seymour-Duncan provides pdf schematics online. It's even easy for me and I am a technical neanderthal. If you have a non-vintage guitar that you don't mind degrading with modifications, it's a great option. I am currently working on a Strat copy with two Hallmark Mosrite copy p'ups I bought for next to nothing from Mel in BC (thanks tons, Mel!), wired like a Telecaster with a 4 position switch and the phase reversal. Thus I will get some 6 sounds (neck, bridge, n+b series, n+b parallel, n+b ser. out-of-phase, n+b par. o-o-f). Nifty!

Squink Out!

JObeast wrote:

It's easy to install a phase-reverse switch for any pickup using a DPDT slider.

Although the recording has lovely tones when the reversed phase pickup #2 was combined with other pickups, pickup #2 was louder than the other pickups. Because of this volume difference the 2-pickup combination tone was thicker, fuller, and had much more bass than I heard after I lowered the height (and so the volume) of pickup #2. So this recording showed me that combining reversed phase pickups seems (to me) more useful if one of the pickups is louder than the other. This can be accomplished in different ways (e.g., adding a potentiometer or resistor, adjusting height of reversed phase pickup).

Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com

Last edited: Nov 10, 2013 21:55:44

I changed all three guitars. The dark red one became the pearlized purple-red one here. The bright red one has a new pickguard with 4 pickups on angles. The green one is down to 4 pickups but has a new style.
image
image

Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com

Page 1 of 1
Top