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SurfGuitar101 Forums » Surf Musician »

Permalink PA's and sound tech help

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Has anyone had this problem when playing live....:
This was on Saturday - We're booked to play a good sized venue - 200 - 300 people, so there is a good PA, and, admittedly an affable and friendly sound guy. Usually, we play small venues off our backline, with a vocal amp for audience interaction...hopefully.
We have a loud drummer, I have a Dual Showman and a 1x15 cab, Adam has a 500W Orange bass amp and a 4x10" cab. So, we have a fair bit of power in our backline.

On this stage there are two monitors per person. When we do a soundcheck, everything is coming at us from the monitors. I don't like guitar through the monitors, I prefer it from my cab, so usually I ask for no guitar in the monitors, just the bass in case I can't hear Adams cab which is like 10 feet away.

When we come to play, the drums and the bass are so loud in the monitors, I can't hear my guitar. Well, I can sometimes. It left me scratching my head as to why the whole band is put through the monitors when I'm standing next to the drums, and Adam has a loud bass amp on stage. I can hear them fine without the monitors.
For vocals, I can understand the monitors. On a big stage, I can understand monitors. This was neither of those situations. The monitors were blasting our instruments back at us louder than we were playing them!

Out front, the drums sounded fantastic. We probably all sounded fantastic, but on stage I barely heard what I was playing despite standing in front of a Dual Showman turned up halfway which should really be plenty!

Anyone else have issues with sound engineers? Is there a tactful way to say that we don't need half their equipment? Should I always carry a Tech Spec sheet for them? It's also difficult to explain that the guitar needs to be louder in the mix than a vocal band without sounding like an egotistical guitarist.

Are there any sound engineers here that can offer any tips? Or any seasoned pro's that can get a consistently good sound on stage?

http://thewaterboarders.bandcamp.com/

Da-Ron

In my experience, it's perfectly acceptable to ask the sound engineer to change the monitor mix during the set. Just ask him/her to take the drums and bass down (or out) in your monitor(s).

People often fail to understand that the main purpose of a soundcheck from the band's perspective is to make sure that everyone on stage can hear everything they need to hear in a way that suits them. If the engineer didn't get that then he wasn't doing his job. If he's made a mistake (which we all do, surely) tell him, from the stage, what you need to be hearing. If he can't give it to you, he's not doing his job.

Los Fantasticos

Da-Ron. your PM inbox is to full, I can't answer your mail.

OK, have another go..

http://thewaterboarders.bandcamp.com/

djangodeadman wrote:

In my experience, it's perfectly acceptable to ask the sound engineer to change the monitor mix during the set. Just ask him/her to take the drums and bass down (or out) in your monitor(s).

This is exactly the case. Just nicely say "could you take the guitar and drums out of the monitors, and add a touch of bass please" or whatever it is that needs to be done. Sound Engineers (I've worked from the stage and from the board over the years) don't know what you want unless you tell them. When I'm at the board I appreciate the musicians telling me what they need, otherwise I have no clue, especially if it's an ensemble or unusual style I've not worked with before.

Steve

Last edited: Aug 10, 2013 23:37:16

Thanks for your responses - uusually the sound guy does a good job and I can hear everything - it just struck me as a bit pointless on this occassion taking our backline sound and blasting it at us through the monitors louder than it is behind us! And it was already pretty damn loud behind us!
Oh well, to be honest I hope we never play there again, they paid us less than the promoter told them to and everyone stared at us "like a pig looks at a wristwatch" as Black Francis once said..

http://thewaterboarders.bandcamp.com/

"uusually the sound guy does a good job and I can hear everything" you have been pretty lucky so far Smile

A soundguy won't know if your monitor mix is good unless you say something. Nothing at all wrong with telling him you need something changed. If you still have problems then it becomes an issue. I always prepare for the worst, and if it's better It's a win lol

Psycho surfabilly!

www.thealderkings.com

I don't see the need for a PA system if you're an instro Surf band.

www.apollo4.com

Agree
The guitar is usually mixed too low in the mix as well.

Just to clarify: I do tell the sound guy what I want - I just don't see the point of taking our (loud) backline and projecting it at us even louder from monitors, when the stage was so small.

http://thewaterboarders.bandcamp.com/

...not to mention you usually have top-notch vintage tube gear, quality instruments, and outboard reverb and effects that are carefully chosen and output to your speaker cabinet of choice.

Once you put an SM-57 in front of the amp, run it through solid state craplification, and output it to metallic sounding PA speakers it destroys your tone...it also doesn't help the drums authenticity to have booming bass drum and gated reverb snare.

Surf bands sound is best left alone. Wink

www.apollo4.com

This thread reminds me this :

image

Big Grin

Monkey Ju

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While I don't play surf, we do play in different venues/bars/picnics at least 10x a year.

Key is having a good discussion with the soundman prior to getting on stage so that they know what you're looking for. It sounds like they've never had a surf band there before, as with rock/pop, usually the amps are lower in stage volume and the PA carries the sound/mix to the crowd, and monitors are needed to let everyone hear. As an example, for indoor shows with a full PA, I only bring my Tremolux or Bandmaster; outdoors I'll bring the Showman, and overall the band sounds fine. Then again, we don't play surf and have keyboards and 3-4 vocalists as well, so we need the PA to manage the whole mix. With surf, bands usually do a good job of self-mixing on stage, so the PA and/or monitors are not needed as much.

Sound check shouldn't be about jamming - at all. It should be to ensure that the stage levels are right, and if you have monitors, they have what you need in them - it's your time to ensure things are dialed in the way you want them. We'll stop songs if the monitor mixes aren't right, and if things are really out of whack, get off stage and walk over to discuss. I also find it gives me time to tweak levels on pedals, since different venues will need different delays, etc.

Sorry to hear it didn't work out at this venue, but hopefully this helps in the future.


'65 Fender Tremolux, '74 Princeton; 77 Vibrolux Reverb; '81 Princeton Reverb
'65-66 Hilgen Basso Grande
Dr. Z MAZ 18 Jr. + 1x12 Cab
Various Telecasters and noise-making pedals
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