horax wrote:

what's the difference?
feel?
sound?
etc?

There are more than many discussions about this. Even a random look through these will help you out.

http://surfguitar101.com/search/?q=flatwound&models=forums.topic
http://surfguitar101.com/forums/topic/793/

I like their feel under my fingers, their sound and that they're quiet as I slide my fingers over them.

This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.

Last edited: Jul 19, 2013 23:58:54

Flat wounds will give you a stronger fundamental than round wounds.
I was a round wound hold out for years but now almost all of my Surf/Instro guitars have flats. For me it's about sound

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Noel,
I think they sound great. "Arigato" on our record is flats with a little fuzz as well as "Hippy Trip"

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Weren't most guitars strung with flats 50+ years ago? Think about the evolution of guitar playing that occurred in the mid-60s with the dispersion of Chicago blues styles through British and American bands, where the sound of slinky strings being bent under a fair amount of compression replaced in popular music the sounds of strong picking technique and clean amplification. Ernie Ball's custom gauges came on the scene in LA to respond to the need for lighter roundwounds in the post-surf era (may we never speak of such times again!).
A surf guitar rig: Fender or similar solidbody (generally) 11+ flats, reverb, heavy+clean amplification is played in such a different way than an electric blues rig that it obtains to nearly a different instrument altogether.
What were Country & Western guitarists usuing in the Buck Owens era and earlier? I know lap steels are typically strung with rounds so the player can generate some friction that 'bows' the strings with the bar for added sustain. Don Rich must have been using slinky rounds but I can't imagine Chet would have needed them for his classical technique.
The surf flatwound aesthetic is essentially coming from a different playing tradition than mainstream rock with its blues and C/W roots. Surf guitar, although a rock form, avoids mimicry of vocal sounds – not much pitch bending and no overt reliance on sustain. Flatwounds, which produce a stronger fundamental pitch with much less in the way of overtones, are also the choice of jazz guitarists, who do not want to crowd complex and dissonant chords with a bunch of overtones, which slinky rounds emphasize. Those ringing overtones are the bread and butter of overdriven rock tone, where harmonic distortion makes a P5 w/or w/o an octave sound like a thick major voicing.
We haven't even mentioned the overwhelming influence of the Fender Spring Reverb unit which transforms the fundamental-heavy tones of a single-coil guitar palm muted into something completely electronic and as removed from acoustic jazz as electric blues, but in a different direction altogether.
I played with a surf guitarist who, though not enjoying the luxury of classic gear, spoke about this or that element as 'more surf' than another. E.g., Jag is 'more surf' than Harmony Rocket (hollowbody) or even Fender Mustang. Flat 11s are 'more surf' than round 10s. I think the point was to direct my own playing in a more traditional surf direction, where heavy flats on an axe classic to the genre would more readily produce the requisite sounds.
Fascinating topic!

Squink Out!

Very good post JObeast +1

I use flats for surf stuff because the sound of flats is mostly fundamental tone frequency. Reverb seems to me to be all about harmonics, so, the end result when using flats a big solid note, with the added reverb effect. I use D'Addario Chromes because of a more HiFi sound than other flat brands.

For the Panamericans, I use RotoSound .012" roundwounds on a Jaguar with stock style pickups which blended better with the other guitar which was a dryer, more pushed {clipping} type of sound. This gave me an edge to push the rock harder, or back off the guitar volume to clean it up a bit. I used an original tweed Bassman, tube Echoplex, and a 1962 Reverb Unit set with a low mix level. Also, a Lovepedal Les Lius set on the tweed Twin setting to sound like I was pushing the Bassman harder than I actually was.

Flats did not have the correct dynamics for this music.

The other end of things... .010" GHS Burnished for rock, and all other forms.

Well... they did have round wounds in the surf era. Dick Dale, Eddie Bertrand, The Atlantics, etc. all used round wounds.

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Brian wrote:

Well... they did have round wounds in the surf era. Dick Dale, Eddie Bertrand, The Atlantics, etc. all used round wounds.

Which is why I could not get the sound I wanted from that really nice Jaguar someone borrowed me recently: When I see a white/tortoise Jaguar I immediately think of Eddie Bertrand's sound, but with the flats strung on this peticular guitar I could not get anywhere near it. The result was that I could not even play this thing properly although it had a good setup: The lower strings just did not "push" enough in comparision with the trebly edge of the higher strings. So I had to hit the lower strings harder than usually and in consequence my whole playing fell apart.

Of course I gave back the guitar BEFORE I found out that Eddie used rounds. I just thought flats are mandatory on Jaguars and Jazzmasters, because that's what you read most of the time.

SlacktoneDave wrote:

I use flats for surf stuff because the sound of flats is mostly fundamental tone frequency.

Dave, have you always played flats for surf, even in the early Nightrider-days? Do you remember what strings John Blair had on his guitars?

And while we are at it: Slacktone are overdue for another european tour. We all still fondly remember your last visit to Berlin (my old band opened for you) and actually I get asked quite regularily by some folks whether I heard anything.

Los Apollos - cinematic surf music trio (Berlin)
"Postcards from the Scrapyard" Vol. 1, 2 & 3 NOW available on various platforms!
"Chaos at the Lobster Lounge" available as LP and download on Surf Cookie Records!

I don't know if this will help anyone who is on the fence about rounds or flats but I use mostly flats with Crazy Aces but I use a specific fuzz pedal (pigtronix disnortion) on a specific setting (there are 6 different fuzz choices on this pedal and I set it for low, low fuzz) at times that gives me a more twangy, brighter, biting tone, not necessarily a fuzz sound. This way I've got the flats for the string fundamental, old school thing but at the stomp of a switch have a more biting, round wound type sound.
Works well.

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Zonker wrote:

I recall someone in Surf Beat (hoping it wasn't a Beach Boy) saying that they never had to change their flatwound strings because they never went dead.

Strings never sound dead until you put a new set on.

Put Thomastik-Infeld flats on my Squier Jazzmaster... straight into an old 1967 DeLuxe Reverb.. bingo.. (Rhythm).
Just put flats on my Mexican Strat (maple neck) and that instrument came to life and is useful for the first time (to me) as a 2nd back-up guitar for this band...

Having a blast as #2 guitarist in a surf band in Boston ("The Fathoms")