normj
Joined: Apr 26, 2010
Posts: 882
central Indiana
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Posted on Jun 17 2013 05:56 PM
Looks like I am in the minority here. I never considered the Beach Boys to be surf. I always thought of them as California pop (girls, cars and the beach). I must admit, I did not hear the term surf applied to music back in 61 or 62. But I did not live in the south bay area where the name was coined. Frankly, I don't think I ever gave it any thought as to whether some song was surf or not back then. I just listened to (and tried to learn to play) any song I liked. The pigeon-holing of music into rigidly defined genres is a phenomena that occurred well after my youth.
These days, I tend to agree with PJ's definition of surf and his statement that the Beach Boys were not surf.
And before anyone labels me as a Beach Boy hater. that would be far from accurate. I bought their singles and albums as fast as they came out. In early 69, I saw them for the 7th time. Not bad for a farm boy from Indiana.
Talk to you later,
Norm
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JObeast
Joined: Jul 24, 2012
Posts: 2762
Finknabad, Squinkistan
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Posted on Jun 17 2013 07:03 PM
A buddy gave me acopy of "The Wrecking Crew" and I read it voraciously cover to cover. Excellent, informative.
And Norm does nail it about the Beach Boys – whether a purist of instrumental music likes them or not, most people consider them 'surf'. The lines we see now didn't exist half century ago. Music is just music anyhow.
FOr instance, some purists claim that it isn't surf unless it's drenched in reverb from an outboard tank. Stuff like that is more the provenance of Taliban – you know, return to origins and all that.
PrestonRice wrote:
I think the sound relies on the many layers of sound that build and cooperate, and Mike's voice was screwing with all the layers and harmonies. Not only that, but his voice didn't quite sit right in that time. Speaking of the beach boys, anyone seen "the wrecking crew"? It looks really good, I may have to buy it.
— Squink Out!
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bigtikidude
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 25620
Anaheim(So.Cal.)U.S.A.
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Posted on Jun 17 2013 09:57 PM
When I hear about real surfers going to Beach Boys shows
And throwing tomatoes at the beach boys,
That says it all to me.
— Jeff(bigtikidude)
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WhorehayRFB
Joined: Jun 12, 2008
Posts: 3331
Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted on Jun 17 2013 11:43 PM
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WhorehayRFB
Joined: Jun 12, 2008
Posts: 3331
Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted on Jun 17 2013 11:48 PM
bigtikidude wrote:
When I hear about real surfers going to Beach Boys shows
And throwing tomatoes at the beach boys,
That says it all to me.
From what I've read, surfers in the early 60s didn't like surf music. Any surf music. Therefore your argument is invalid.
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http://www.sandiegojoe.com/rfb.htm
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normj
Joined: Apr 26, 2010
Posts: 882
central Indiana
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Posted on Jun 18 2013 01:03 AM
WhorehayRFB wrote: From what I've read, surfers in the early 60s didn't like surf music. Any surf music. Therefore your argument is invalid.
Sounds like you have never read any of PJ's descriptions of the origin of surf. Surfers coined the phrase surf music to apply to his and Eddie's music (and to Dick Dale) back in 1961.
http://surfguitar101.com/forums/topic/16159/?page=3#p226800
Surfers wanted to beat up the Beach Boys. I guess that says how well accepted they were by the surfers.
Later,
Norm
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Jun 18 2013 01:46 AM
Several possibilities...
1.) Surfers were cunts(for throwing tomatoes at a living human being/wanting to 'beat someone up')
2.) Surfers didn't like surf music
3.) Any music surfer's liked was surf music
4.) Does it really matter as long as one deems the music to be good?
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arncol
Joined: Apr 10, 2012
Posts: 23
Denton, Tx
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Posted on Jun 18 2013 07:05 AM
Not sure "real surfers" in the 60's were as monolithic as some here imagine. I can't speak specifically about the California experience, but I lived and surfed on the North Shore of Hawaii from 1962 to 1966 and had daily contact with legends and pioneers of the sport, many of whom are still revered today. They came from various backgrounds, were pretty individualistic and, I think, not the kind of "peas in a pod" that would sign on for a particular type of music based on a popular brand name.
Arnie
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UnsteadyFreddie
Joined: Feb 28, 2006
Posts: 2979
Hell\'s Kitchen, NYC
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Posted on Jun 18 2013 07:15 AM
all I know is I dig 'em immensely, especially growing up in the 1960's
OK OK they ain't "pure surf", I get that, and it has been pointed out they did some instrumental stuff on their LP's
I have heard their "style" of music described as "the California sound" which I kinda like
and I really enjoyed their 50th Anniversary Tour (I went to 5 shows!)
UNSTEADY FREDDIE
uh-oh -- what about "CALIFORNIA SUN" by THE RIVIERAS? Is that "SURF"??
— http://www.facebook.com/unsteady.freddie
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Brian
Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Posts: 19309
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Posted on Jun 18 2013 07:39 AM
Louie7 wrote:
I don't think anyone would pose the question "Were The Astronauts a real surf band?", would they? Yet, they (like the Beach Boys) became primarily a vocal band.
A pretty strong case could be made for that actually. They were not a surf band in the beginning. They got a record deal because the label wanted a "surf" band. The label hired Lee Hazelwood to write some tunes for them. And then a short time later they switched to "hot rod" music when that fad landed. And when it was all over they went back to what they did before. So maybe not a true surf band, but an excellent band that played excellent surf music (sound familiar? cough, cough, Ventures).
You can throw rocks and garbage at me now.
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mom_surfing
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 5310
the outer banks of north carolina
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Posted on Jun 18 2013 08:37 AM
we need a smiley beating a dead horse. 
long time surfer here and lover of the BB's.
freddie, 'california sun'.....i never tire of that tune. i think classifying it as 'california sound' is pretty close.
— www.surfintheeye.com
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Brian
Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Posts: 19309
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Posted on Jun 18 2013 09:01 AM
mom_surfing wrote:
we need a smiley beating a dead horse.
— Site dude - S3 Agent #202
Need help with the site? SG101 FAQ - Send me a private message - Email me
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EJ
Joined: May 05, 2012
Posts: 351
Virginia Beach
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Posted on Jun 18 2013 10:18 AM
California Band formed in 61. check
songs about surfing and the lifestyle . check
instrumentals . check
Fender Jags and the like. check
when any non musician asks you what you play and you say surf, they say oh like the B.B. check . though we say not exactly and go into a long winded dissertation on the matter ..
Like it or not they are 'technically ' a surf band
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Stormtiger
Joined: Dec 12, 2006
Posts: 2684
Ventura, CA
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Posted on Jun 18 2013 11:05 AM
Who ever said surf music was for surfers? That would just be crazy.
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arncol
Joined: Apr 10, 2012
Posts: 23
Denton, Tx
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Posted on Jun 18 2013 12:36 PM
Stormtiger said, "Who ever said surf music was for surfers? That would just be crazy."
Not only would it have been crazy, but it could never have become commercially viable--there just weren't enought surfers in the 60's to make it really profitable on a large scale. Record companies exploited the energy, freedom, and excitement-rich image of surfing to appeal to both surfers and a much larger group of non-surfers and make some $$$. Had they not done so, instead of being a well known music genre, surf music would exist today to the same degree as the streaking fad of the 60's and 70's would likely be an olympic sport. The average kid in the midwest had no idea what surfers thought about it.
That being said, I think the Beach Boys did a pretty good job of communicating the energy, freedom, and excitement of surfing. I'm definitely in the "yes" camp.
Arnie
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PrestonRice
Joined: Oct 05, 2012
Posts: 1725
Austin, Texas
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Posted on Jun 18 2013 02:53 PM
mom_surfing wrote:
we need a smiley beating a dead horse.
?
— IMO.
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Stormtiger
Joined: Dec 12, 2006
Posts: 2684
Ventura, CA
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Posted on Jun 18 2013 03:59 PM
What is your favorite surf guitar???
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mom_surfing
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 5310
the outer banks of north carolina
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Posted on Jun 18 2013 09:18 PM
PrestonRice wrote:
mom_surfing wrote:
we need a smiley beating a dead horse.
?
are you sure that's not a donkey? 
— www.surfintheeye.com
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PrestonRice
Joined: Oct 05, 2012
Posts: 1725
Austin, Texas
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Posted on Jun 18 2013 09:25 PM
Good point. I wonder if you can beat a dead llama? Now THAT would be a sight to behold.
— IMO.
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dp
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 3546
mojave desert, california
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Posted on Jun 19 2013 12:23 PM
The Beach Boys were definitely "surf" when David Marks was with them...
Last edited: Jun 19, 2013 12:23:46
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