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SurfGuitar101 Forums » Gear »

Permalink Amp question

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Hi everyone. I have an open question to all the amp experts here. I know there are quite a few, so here goes.
It seems that most of what I have read about amps is that they seem to sound their best cranked up quite a bit. As opposed to turned down. However, there are many times when turned down is the only way they can be played. i.e. at home. Is it possible to make an amp that can have all the knobs, the power cranked up so that the electroincs are running in their prime power spot, but have an adjustable volume control on the speaker?
That way the great sounds everyone seeks could be enjoyed at a lower speaker volume.

Joel
I know, I am not am amp guy...... yet. Very Happy

You can always buy an Attenuator, which is basically what you are describing -- a separate piece to run between your head and your cab on which you can adjust the volume going out of the cab, while driving the head as much as you want.

THD makes a very popular one called the "Hot Plate", which will run you generally about three hundy, but is supposed to be worth every penny for the bedroom player, or the small-club player.

Now if they only made drummer attenuators... Wink

~B~

amp/speaker power attenuators are also called "dummy loads" ...not a "real" (or "actual") speaker load on the amplifier...but rather an "fake" impedence load with a variable output to your speaker of choice.

actually, there are two kinds of attenuators, one type build around a major heavy resistor, the other one build around a kind of fake speaker assembly that reacts like a speaker to the signal, and supposedly sounds more natural. you should check ted weber's site, he's got some info there and sells attenuators and attenuator kits as well.

my take would be though, that they are every pricy, wont EVER make your amp sound the same but less loud because mucho part of the sound is the speaker playing at it's sweet spot, and you end up with a moderate volume amp that's very large and very heavy. Id opt for a decent parctice amp instead.

WR

Rules to live by #314:
"When in Italy, if the menu says something's grilled, don't assume it is."

https://www.facebook.com/The-Malbehavers-286429584796173/

Lots of info here on tons of stuff related to tone, effects and amps http://www.amptone.com/index.html . I haven't really run across anything blatantly wrong, though experienced folks can probably argue over semantics on some of the stuff. Of course I also haven't read everything...

Back in the eighties Rock when I was trying to get people to "c'mon feel the noise" and ride the "Crazy Train" with me Embarassed My stage rig was a Roland JC-120 and a Marshall... I used one of these in front of the marshall http://www.amptone.com/tenmavariac.htm not that particular model, lord knows what it was as it went away around 1991 I stopped playing out. The main reason was the people at the club down the street were trying to make out all the words to "No Woman No Cry" or the Four Non-Blondes, or some lame Manhattan Transfer wannabes... It dumps the power before the amp instead of after, so you can still crank it to 11, but it's much more gentle to your gear AND the breakup is rounder and smoother, which was pleasing to my rapidly declining ability to hear.

Unless you are a serious gigger though, a small solid state modelling practice amp like the roland cube or the 30watt Vox Valvetronix is probably a better way to go as WR said. He didn't say get solid state, He may have meant a tube amp, but for bedroom playing, where you may feel like turning on and shutting down after only like 5 minutes if it ain't happenin', solid state is handy, and sounds more than adequately good.

I have an 800 Watt dummy load! Shocked

One of the reasons the amp sounds good when it's cooking is that it's moving air and not only can you hear it, but both you and your guitar can feel it. Choking the crap out if your amp is ok (I guess) if you are playing some show and the club owner has a case of the ass about volume. But it's not much fun anyway you look at it. In the past when my guitar volume and bite was an issue, I would turn the cab around backwards and reflect the sound off the rear wall. Usually about 4" works well reflecting the low E and it really softens up the treble bite. This is especially effective with a slant Marshall cab.......yeah, I've had those too.....ed

Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?

great answers guys.
It looks like the volume to hearing and people issue has been seriously looked at for some time. To bad it even is an issue. But as eddiekatcher say's.....> One of the reasons the amp sounds good when it's cooking is that it's moving air and not only can you hear it, but both you and your guitar can feel it

. I see the point. So I guess I have some things to think about now.

SurfBandBill, I checked out the device ( attenuator) you suggested, and got a lot of info studying the product at THD. Thanks.

badash Wow that unit you mentioned is really something. Makes me wonder how I missed all this stuff as I was ageing?
Thanks again guys
Joel

Right on with running a dummy load also the Sans Amp does a VERY good job of making a Showman sound like a tweed Bassman cranked but at a low volume. If you're running an amp with a tube rectifier what you're after is the "sag" when you first hit the note..blues/rock players love this and is why the Tweeds are valued by them. For surf...I would say most are running blackface Fenders with a solid state rectifier in which case it will take turning her up to "11" to get that breakup if even then...I'd buy a Sans Amp pedal.

www.northofmalibu.com

I have a 100-watt, Blackfaced '73 Twin Reverb that really doesn't get cooking until it is turned up to 4 or 5 - causing things all over my house to shake, rattle and roll. About where it sounds sweetest is the volume at which my neighbors come over to tell me to turn it the hell down.

Sometimes I just want to unleash the beast Twisted Evil , but I think the best solution might be a smaller amp with less clean headroom - one that starts to break up a little earlier and give me a little overdrive. I also use pedals to get this sound, but it really isn't as nice as overdriving the amp's tubes to near meltdown.

What I guess I am saying is, a stage amp can be too big for home or for practice. And, in fact, for a small stage.

I think most of us address this problem by having a smaller amp for practice and small gigs. A sound proof studio is nice, too, so you can just forget those pesky neigbors and crank it up.

Very Happy

I know Jake will want to hang me for this one, but don't forget about those lovely Crate Powerblocks. If you can find them, they're stupidly cheap right now (I just saw one on Craigslist for $60), and they have a nice gain channel that gets a decent "tube warmth", and best of all - IT HAS HEADPHONE JACKS!!!

It might not be a Showman, but then again, you can't plug headphones into your Showman either.

~B~

@ badash: a Variac in the signal line? I ve never heard of that, isn't that just the most expensive volume control ever???? I suppose you could run the amps powerchord through a variac, lowering all voltages in the amp, but I d never ever do that. first of all, your filaments will get to low, secondly, the entire operation of the amp will change, resulting in a different sound. might be a sound you like, but it will never be the same sound as when you play loud, just less loud. so what's the point then, if for the price of a vraiac or less you can get a great practice amp?

WR

Rules to live by #314:
"When in Italy, if the menu says something's grilled, don't assume it is."

https://www.facebook.com/The-Malbehavers-286429584796173/

I do have a great practice amp. 2 of them actually. Wait... If you count the sub-$100 powerblock, I have 3... Embarassed

Yeah, you plug the powerchord into the variac and control the power going into the amp. I was often able to crank the amp, with a couple tubes pulled, up to max and still get a killer tone, without having the houselights come on, OR the cops barge in. The tone was completely different, and much better to my ears than running the amp at 4 to 7.

I did not run through tubes at a strange pace. Quite the opposite. My shit outlasted all my buddies. And to be blunt, I wasn't using great tubes.

I have received an offline message that you can't use these with tube-rectifiers. Sorry Mesa owners! Actually I shouldn't say that, because I've only heard from one person and don't know the depth of their gear knowledge, but what he said made sense...

I know it's hard to do this without going to an electronic supply house that is willing to let you plug in and burn on premises, but you should give one a try if you are considering all the soaks, dummies, and whatever new fangled stuff is out there. Let's admit it, unless you are wed to vintage gear, there are switchable amps that let you run 5/15, 6/18... Heck, Mesa just released a 5/50! Unfortunately the early street reviews aren't going well on that one. I'm sure the mags will gush though! I've wished I had my old unit back a couple of times when my AC30 was sounding killer I wanted to turn it the f*** up.

Speaking of being hard on the gear. I remember reading, way back when, that Eddie Van Halen used one to boost the power going into his amp to 140! Shocked Talk about not making sense and "I'd never do that"!

I've had the Weber MASS for years - I was one of the first customers, and found that it was good for recording, but made my amp too quiet live (in a fairly loud band). A couple of years ago I wrote to Weber asking for some mods, and instead he just exchanged it for a new model with all the bells and whistles. Even better functionality, but still - in a loud live band, I got burried. So, it's waiting quietly in the shadows to be used for recrding...It should work great for bedroom practice, if you already have the amp, but the price isn't that cheap $225.
https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/mass.htm

Good luck
Ran

The Scimitars

Last edited: Mar 14, 2007 09:34:35

I don't know... considering all the "bells and whistles" $225 doesn't seem like that much. Much like donuts "is there anything it can't do?" Cool link. Thanks.

Until you can get a soundproof place to play in I think the attenuator may be your best bet.

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