Avoiding Repetition

VerboSaurusRex

Joined: Dec 29, 2012
Posts: 32
Lansing, Michigan
United States

Posted on Jan 22 2013 04:40 PM

Surf I suppose can be repetitive by nature, but I'd like to avoid it too much when writing. Do you have any techniques you use to avoid repetition? To avoid it being brought up here right away and to give an example, I'll state the obvious "play it an octave lower" bit.

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CrazyAces

Joined: Jul 31, 2012
Posts: 4053
Nashville, TN.
3 News Pins

Posted on Jan 22 2013 04:53 PM

When it comes to writing I try to avoid stylistic repetition by not having a guitar in my hands when writing a song. This way I follow the musical inspiration in my head and don't let the instrument dictate or suggest where to go. This also helps me avoid repetitious keys that I feel are overused in the genre such as E or A.

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blueruins

Joined: Mar 05, 2010
Posts: 362
Mauna Lani, HI
United States

Posted on Jan 22 2013 05:04 PM

Yup...I like to take a walk while replaying the parts I have over and over in my mind. when I get to the unknown I just hum the first thing that comes to mind until I catch something that seems interesting. I think the rhythm of movement really helps the process.

—

http://blueruins.bandcamp.com

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Rich

Joined: Jan 20, 2013
Posts: 30
4 Download Pins

Posted on Jan 22 2013 08:59 PM

I like your track and will offer an old Buddy Holly and Brian Wilson trick. If your basic song construct is two chorus' followed ny a bridge, then a final chorus (occasionally raised a note), try really changing the bridge, i.e. tempo, key and or instrumentally. It's often said that the most famous bridge in popular music is found in Brian's "Wouldn't It Be Nice." OK, it's not surf, but you will see my point if you listen to it. That bridge is nearly a different song entirely.

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VerboSaurusRex

Joined: Dec 29, 2012
Posts: 32
Lansing, Michigan
United States

Posted on Jan 23 2013 07:16 AM

Thanks folks. I appreciate you listening to the track, Rich. It's not even the one I was worried about (eek!), but your advice is helpful.

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killbabykill34

Joined: Apr 03, 2010
Posts: 3201
Jacksonville, AL
United States

Posted on Jan 23 2013 08:11 AM

I usually bring in a song after a week or so of doing demos of the parts at home. Then, after a complete practice with the band, I take it home in my head for another week. This usually comes back with massive changes that help to avoid repitition. Even more, many of our songs were written in pieces over quite a long time. I would have one part and not know of what to do with it, so I would shelve it. Then, some time down the road, Another seemingly unusable part would come to mind. At some point I usually refer back to the old part and connect the dots.

—

THE KBK ... This is the last known signal. We offer Sanctuary.

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simoncoil

Joined: Sep 28, 2012
Posts: 916
Berlin, Germany
1 News Pin

Posted on Jan 23 2013 08:51 AM

killbabykill34 wrote:

I usually bring in a song after a week or so of doing demos of the parts at home. Then, after a complete practice with the band, I take it home in my head for another week. This usually comes back with massive changes that help to avoid repitition. Even more, many of our songs were written in pieces over quite a long time. I would have one part and not know of what to do with it, so I would shelve it. Then, some time down the road, Another seemingly unusable part would come to mind. At some point I usually refer back to the old part and connect the dots.

I usually do it the same way, though mostly I don't bring complete songs to the band practice, but only one or two parts. Then I listen to what the band is doing with them, try to keep that in mind, and continue writing at home. I then bring in the new parts, see how they work in combination with what's already there, take suggestions etc.

Having the people in your band commenting or co-writing is a time consuming way of songwriting, but in my opinion it's worth the effort: Three or four musicians will recognise "repetition" (or other problems) much more easily, while using the input of the whole will (in the best case) result in songs that are more likely to be recognised as songs of that band.

There are of course people, who like to stay in control of "their tunes" and have the ability (and time) to write and arrange everything on their own. I don't. And since tunes tend to develop a life of their own once they get into the open...

Writing without the guitar in hand is also helpful, especially for melodic parts. Honestly: Just try humming what comes to your mind. You will end up with stuff, you probably would never get with your guitar in hands, cause then you only play along lines you already know.

—

Los Apollos - cinematic surf music trio (Berlin)
"Postcards from the Scrapyard" Vol. 1, 2 & 3 NOW available on various platforms!
"Chaos at the Lobster Lounge" available as LP and download on Surf Cookie Records!

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togergo

Joined: Jan 23, 2012
Posts: 282
Budapest
Hungary

Posted on Jan 23 2013 08:56 AM

There are 2 good 'tricks' (for me)

learn (and understand) something completly else (jazz, classical, anything), and try to use, when you complete the song.
try to find your patterns, and when you find them, try to leave them - for example: "my melodies always walking on a scale" :try some big jumps out in the melody

the first one is natural for me, because I like and play other styles, the second what I have to do when I start to become boring (for me first)

—

original compositions (low-level demo stuff /out of tune, etc) myStuff not my best, but i don't like to be in a musician community without anything to show

Last edited: Jan 23, 2013 08:56:50

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Rich

Joined: Jan 20, 2013
Posts: 30
4 Download Pins

Posted on Jan 23 2013 03:52 PM

I like the last two comments. I always write, or arrange covers, near my piano. Not a great pianist but the keys can take you places the strings can't, even if you're only playing chords. I also write novels and can assure you that you can't proof-read your own work beyond the initial stages.

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LHR

Joined: Aug 23, 2006
Posts: 2123
The jungle
Costa Rica

Posted on Jan 23 2013 08:21 PM

Or you embrace it. Y Niwl comes to mind in this regard. They take a surf sound and shoegaze approach to melody. They make it work, IMO.

—

SSIV

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togergo

Joined: Jan 23, 2012
Posts: 282
Budapest
Hungary

Posted on Jan 24 2013 04:55 AM

Rich wrote:

I like the last two comments. I always write, or arrange covers, near my piano. Not a great pianist but the keys can take you places the strings can't, even if you're only playing chords. I also write novels and can assure you that you can't proof-read your own work beyond the initial stages.

Yes, I think, force yourself to leave your comfort zone, that's really important, If you don't want to be a repeater - a new instrument, a new picking technique... anything

—

original compositions (low-level demo stuff /out of tune, etc) myStuff not my best, but i don't like to be in a musician community without anything to show

Top

VerboSaurusRex Joined: Dec 29, 2012 Posts: 32 Lansing, Michigan	Posted on Jan 22 2013 04:40 PM Surf I suppose can be repetitive by nature, but I'd like to avoid it too much when writing. Do you have any techniques you use to avoid repetition? To avoid it being brought up here right away and to give an example, I'll state the obvious "play it an octave lower" bit. Top
CrazyAces Joined: Jul 31, 2012 Posts: 4053 Nashville, TN.	Posted on Jan 22 2013 04:53 PM When it comes to writing I try to avoid stylistic repetition by not having a guitar in my hands when writing a song. This way I follow the musical inspiration in my head and don't let the instrument dictate or suggest where to go. This also helps me avoid repetitious keys that I feel are overused in the genre such as E or A. — http://www.facebook.com/CrazyAcesMusic http://www.youtube.com/user/crazyacesrock http://www.reverbnation.com/crazyacesmusic Top
blueruins Joined: Mar 05, 2010 Posts: 362 Mauna Lani, HI	Posted on Jan 22 2013 05:04 PM Yup...I like to take a walk while replaying the parts I have over and over in my mind. when I get to the unknown I just hum the first thing that comes to mind until I catch something that seems interesting. I think the rhythm of movement really helps the process. — http://blueruins.bandcamp.com Top
Rich Joined: Jan 20, 2013 Posts: 30	Posted on Jan 22 2013 08:59 PM I like your track and will offer an old Buddy Holly and Brian Wilson trick. If your basic song construct is two chorus' followed ny a bridge, then a final chorus (occasionally raised a note), try really changing the bridge, i.e. tempo, key and or instrumentally. It's often said that the most famous bridge in popular music is found in Brian's "Wouldn't It Be Nice." OK, it's not surf, but you will see my point if you listen to it. That bridge is nearly a different song entirely. Top
VerboSaurusRex Joined: Dec 29, 2012 Posts: 32 Lansing, Michigan	Posted on Jan 23 2013 07:16 AM Thanks folks. I appreciate you listening to the track, Rich. It's not even the one I was worried about (eek!), but your advice is helpful. Top
killbabykill34 Joined: Apr 03, 2010 Posts: 3201 Jacksonville, AL	Posted on Jan 23 2013 08:11 AM I usually bring in a song after a week or so of doing demos of the parts at home. Then, after a complete practice with the band, I take it home in my head for another week. This usually comes back with massive changes that help to avoid repitition. Even more, many of our songs were written in pieces over quite a long time. I would have one part and not know of what to do with it, so I would shelve it. Then, some time down the road, Another seemingly unusable part would come to mind. At some point I usually refer back to the old part and connect the dots. — THE KBK ... This is the last known signal. We offer Sanctuary. www.thekbk.com http://www.deepeddy.net/artists/thekbk/ www.reverbnation.com/thekbk www.facebook.com/thekbkal Top
simoncoil Joined: Sep 28, 2012 Posts: 916 Berlin, Germany	Posted on Jan 23 2013 08:51 AM killbabykill34 wrote: I usually bring in a song after a week or so of doing demos of the parts at home. Then, after a complete practice with the band, I take it home in my head for another week. This usually comes back with massive changes that help to avoid repitition. Even more, many of our songs were written in pieces over quite a long time. I would have one part and not know of what to do with it, so I would shelve it. Then, some time down the road, Another seemingly unusable part would come to mind. At some point I usually refer back to the old part and connect the dots. I usually do it the same way, though mostly I don't bring complete songs to the band practice, but only one or two parts. Then I listen to what the band is doing with them, try to keep that in mind, and continue writing at home. I then bring in the new parts, see how they work in combination with what's already there, take suggestions etc. Having the people in your band commenting or co-writing is a time consuming way of songwriting, but in my opinion it's worth the effort: Three or four musicians will recognise "repetition" (or other problems) much more easily, while using the input of the whole will (in the best case) result in songs that are more likely to be recognised as songs of that band. There are of course people, who like to stay in control of "their tunes" and have the ability (and time) to write and arrange everything on their own. I don't. And since tunes tend to develop a life of their own once they get into the open... Writing without the guitar in hand is also helpful, especially for melodic parts. Honestly: Just try humming what comes to your mind. You will end up with stuff, you probably would never get with your guitar in hands, cause then you only play along lines you already know. — Los Apollos - cinematic surf music trio (Berlin) "Postcards from the Scrapyard" Vol. 1, 2 & 3 NOW available on various platforms! "Chaos at the Lobster Lounge" available as LP and download on Surf Cookie Records! Top
togergo Joined: Jan 23, 2012 Posts: 282 Budapest	Posted on Jan 23 2013 08:56 AM There are 2 good 'tricks' (for me) learn (and understand) something completly else (jazz, classical, anything), and try to use, when you complete the song. try to find your patterns, and when you find them, try to leave them - for example: "my melodies always walking on a scale" :try some big jumps out in the melody the first one is natural for me, because I like and play other styles, the second what I have to do when I start to become boring (for me first) — original compositions (low-level demo stuff /out of tune, etc) myStuff not my best, but i don't like to be in a musician community without anything to show Last edited: Jan 23, 2013 08:56:50 Top
Rich Joined: Jan 20, 2013 Posts: 30	Posted on Jan 23 2013 03:52 PM I like the last two comments. I always write, or arrange covers, near my piano. Not a great pianist but the keys can take you places the strings can't, even if you're only playing chords. I also write novels and can assure you that you can't proof-read your own work beyond the initial stages. Top
LHR Joined: Aug 23, 2006 Posts: 2123 The jungle	Posted on Jan 23 2013 08:21 PM Or you embrace it. Y Niwl comes to mind in this regard. They take a surf sound and shoegaze approach to melody. They make it work, IMO. — SSIV Top
togergo Joined: Jan 23, 2012 Posts: 282 Budapest	Posted on Jan 24 2013 04:55 AM Rich wrote: I like the last two comments. I always write, or arrange covers, near my piano. Not a great pianist but the keys can take you places the strings can't, even if you're only playing chords. I also write novels and can assure you that you can't proof-read your own work beyond the initial stages. Yes, I think, force yourself to leave your comfort zone, that's really important, If you don't want to be a repeater - a new instrument, a new picking technique... anything — original compositions (low-level demo stuff /out of tune, etc) myStuff not my best, but i don't like to be in a musician community without anything to show Top

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Avoiding Repetition