But surf came out of old rock-n-roll, so many of the early bands had sax players. Like it or not, it's part of the history of surf music.

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IMHO, the saxophone was a fundamental part of the music surf music developed from. Sax was part of the Belaires and other pioneer surf bands. I suppose if you're going for a really vintage sound, especially playing tunes that originally had a good sax part, then a saxophone fits right it.

Tastes change. Styles change. Which drives or pushes the other? I don't know. I can take performances of vintage surf music with or without saxophones with equal pleasure, especially as later arrangements of them were played very effectively without sax. And even though I think a really good sax player can kick up the dance-factor a couple of notches on the faster tunes.

That said, I've heard The Bambi Molesters play many of their tunes with and without sax (although to my ear the trumpet actually has the dominant brass sound - not sax) and I like their tunes better with than without.

YMMV.

This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.

Last edited: Jan 16, 2013 12:28:21

Guitar players have been attempting to emulate sax players for quite some time.
1: Sustain
2: Distortion
3: Bending notes including whammy bar dips.
4: Phrasing (not to be confused with Phase Shifting)
All are things guitarists do to mimic the sax.
A Roland synth gizmo and sax patch will allow you to sound like a horn if you really want to.

http://www.reverbnation.com/thegreasemonkeyz

I may be mistaken, but when Jon & The Nightriders played tunes that were originally recorded with a significant sax break, didn't (doesn't) John Blair just play the living daylights out of the sax part on his guitar?

This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.

Last edited: Jan 16, 2013 16:31:41

Saxophone is good and no saxophones is good. What's isn't very good is arguing about them or making rabid statements in favor of either approach. But if we are going to, maybe we could reread the last couple of rounds first. Up to the point where we started sliding that direction again here I thought this was a particularly interesting discussion about how to handle rearranging music for a different style of presentation. Not that I don't like hearing about great saxophone stuff.

SG101 is advertised, by the way, an instrument neutral forum, regardless of the name. I believe we are actually encouraged to discuss drums, bass, keys, and horns.

There is clearly more saxophone than not in early surf music, and very r&b oriented saxophone at that. A number of the early schools of surf music were not very r&b oriented, but they all included saxophones, more consistently than electric basses, actually, and they all use some r&b material. And surf music almost immediately absorbed the much more heavily r&b-oriented "hodad" instrumental bands - what I tend to think of as "the Hilder bands," and if you try to exclude the legacy of those bands and the sorts of songs they played from surf music as it is presently understood you end up eviscerating it, because a lot of the material people like best today is actually from them.

The earliest completely saxophone-less instrumental rock music is all clearly "non-surf." It tends to be at least marginally pre-surf, too, so surf music actually dragged saxophone back in in opposition to the tendencies of the Ventures, Shadows, and Fireballs, etc. A lot of this non-surf instrumental material is rather c&w or traditional pop oriented in style. It's not until the second wave that saxophones tend to become controversial in surf music and that people start thinking of surf as "quintessential guitar combo music." It's hard to talk like that when you have a saxophonist or two in the band. This obviously reflects the sea change in pop music in the middle 60s, and it's part of the second wave's attempt to extract a purely instrumental surf music from the more complicated mix actually performed by early bands and put it in a form that appealed to more recent musical sensibilities.

ebrobston wrote:

From the thread title I thought this was a reference to The Surfaris' "Wipeout" recording session (if I recall my urban legends correctly, the sax player had to help out at his dad's shop that day).

I'm pretty sure that's from Bob Dalley's interviews, so not an urban legend. Pash's dad has a lot to answer for ...

The Surfaris were not (originally) a sax-less band. I'm not sure who actually plays sax in Similau, but it's great.

(Not available on line.)

The organ manages to replace it in the Finks' cover. I like both versions, anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x13nc1zJDbQ

Both can be left out in favor of more guitar:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTVLPWw-YYg

It's not bad, but a little emotionally flat maybe.

Tuck wrote:

Number9 wrote:

i think you nailed it Tuck: that's some challenge.
In a way or another that part has to stand out from the rest.
Here's another (whimsy) example imo.

Thanks for that example. I'd been afraid no one got it. I ran out of battery near the middle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiCeeMvtchU

Martin is never afraid to innovate. I wish I could hear him more often.

SURFmole wrote:

I challenge anyone to name one Surf song that wouldn't be better WITHOUT sax.

This could be a losing proposition with someone who just doesn't like sax judging and defining the terms, but I'll trust you to be fair in spite of your aversion in a test you've proposed yourself and of course, there's the jury of our peers.

Taming of the Tube (New Dimensions)
Tough Soul (Sentinals)
Sano (Centurions, for the sake of argument)
Vesuvius (Original Surfaris, again, for the sake of argument)
Moment of Truth (Surftones, though I like a lot of early versions, including the original with the Original Surfaris. And I like Jon & the Nightriders version without sax - but better? The Finks' version without sax is OK, but a little flat.)
Midnight Run (Nocturnes)
Bangalore (Blazers)
It's a Gas (Rumblers)
Wiggle Wobble (Rumblers, and I definitely like this better than the original)
Blue Soul (Rhythm Kings)
Mozart Stomp (Ramblers)
Let There Be Surf (Chevells)
King's Surf (Surftones)
Silver Bullet (Crossfires)
Chunky (Crossfires)
Shootin' the Pier (Lively Ones)

Bottom Feeder (Halibuts)
Bowling Ball Gardens (Halibuts)
Git My Goat (Fathoms)
Kwajalein (Fathoms)
Steel Trap (Eliminators)
Big Chief Whoopin' Coff (Eliminators, covering the Fireballs)

Really, though, I think the challenge is to get the most out of a song with what you've got. I'm not saying you have to have a sax player to do these songs right and I hope I've made that clear in some of the comments. For what it's worth one of the nicest Misirlous I know of is performed by a string quartet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT2-lA6VOF4

Last edited: Jan 16, 2013 22:23:51

Bill of the Eliminators is also a very good, and tasteful sax player.

Jeff(bigtikidude)

NO SAX IN SURF MUSIC YOU SAY?

I RESPOND IN MUSIC

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