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Charvel Surfcaster - Via Eastwood?
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 10331 southern Michigan 
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Posted on Dec 12 2012 09:27 AM
Sonichris wrote:
Very cool, Chris! How does he like it? —Ivan |
Joined: Mar 06, 2006 Posts: 1911 Wear gloves - I'm in the Rockies
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Posted on Dec 12 2012 09:38 AM
He likes it, but almost never plays it. The neck is very 80's like, thin, huge frets, flat board. —"You can't tell where you're going if you don't know where you've been" Last edited: Dec 12, 2012 09:39:16 |
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Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 10331 southern Michigan
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Posted on Dec 12 2012 09:59 AM
Ah, so it's the same like the original Surfcaster in that regard. Too bad... —Ivan |
Joined: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 54 Las Vegas, NV |
Posted on Dec 12 2012 12:38 PM
StevieMartini wrote:
You mean this guy? |
Joined: Mar 01, 2006 Posts: 490 Chicago 
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Posted on Dec 12 2012 02:30 PM
Yep that dude!! Phil! |
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Joined: Jun 14, 2006 Posts: 913 New York City area |
Posted on Dec 12 2012 05:27 PM
I had one of these... One of the most useless guitars I ever owned. The neck was slim - I should like slim - look at my favorite type of guitar - but the surfcaster neck with the tall frets was just plain lousy to play. |
Joined: Dec 12, 2006 Posts: 2688 Ventura, CA
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Posted on Dec 12 2012 06:08 PM
All looks and no brains. |
Joined: Aug 23, 2006 Posts: 2123 The jungle 
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Posted on Dec 12 2012 11:45 PM
IvanP wrote:
I would challenge that claim. If an Eastwood product could be readily confused with an FMIC product at point of sale; that is, if it was as exact as most of the copies Eastwood offers, then you can bet Fender would try to protect their brand. Try to buy a Rickenbacker copy in case you really think design ownership is an irrelevant IP concept. Though I guess Fender and Gibson really only seem to consider it economical to protect their unique headstock shapes, this couldn't possibly be some sort of rule. And you gotta know that, if it was easier, they would vigorously attempt to squash anything remotely similar. You may know something I do not about IP law in this case. Feel free to educate me. Anyway, it is no matter. I figured Eastwood would sell more or less exact replicas and use the proper name and all that, like they do with Airline, Wandre, etc. I couldn't conceive of a way for them to do that since they do not own the Charvel trademark. But maybe you are thinking that they will more or less clone the Surfcaster but call it something different with a different headstock also. Hmm... Yeah, I could see that. Surfcasters are not exactly a big deal these days. And, truthfully, I may not know what the hell I'm talking about; I'm not really an Eastwood or Charvel expert. (Played a few of both but didn't dig them.) After poking around the web site, I guess Eastwood already gets away with producing several other models that eerily resemble Harmony, National, Hopf, Kay, etc. without a problem. Yet I am sure somebody still owns something related to these old trademarks. —Last edited: Dec 12, 2012 23:47:47 |
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Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 10331 southern Michigan
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Posted on Dec 13 2012 08:53 AM
LHR wrote:
Well, I know of two precedents: 1) back in the early '80s as the Japanese copies were flooding the US shores, Fender took a bunch of them to court, which decided the only thing that Fender could have a copyright over was the headstock shape. After that, Fernandez and ESP in particular continued to supply Strat copies to the US with slightly altered headstock shapes. 2) about ten years ago Gibson sued Paul Reed Smith for their Singlecut guitar copying the Les Paul design. Gibson ultimately lost the case. (See details from Wikipedia below). So, here are two important legal precedents, where courts decided that a guitar design does not have copyright over it. I do not know of a single example of the opposite. From the Paul Reed Smith page on Wikipedia: In 2001, when PRS released their "Singlecut" guitar—which bore some resemblance to the venerable Les Paul. Gibson Guitar Corporation filed a trademark infringement lawsuit against Paul Reed Smith. An injunction was ordered[4] and PRS stopped manufacture of the Singlecut at the end of 2004. Federal District Court Judge William J. Haynes, in a 57-page decision ruled "that PRS [Paul Reed Smith] was imitating the Les Paul" and gave the parties ninety days "to complete any discovery on damages or disgorgement of PRS's profits on the sales of its offending Singlecut guitar."[4] In 2005, the United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit reversed the lower court decision and ordered the dismissal of Gibson's suit against PRS.[5] The decision also immediately vacated the injunction prohibiting the sale and production of PRS’s Singlecut Guitar. PRS announced that it would immediately resume production of its Singlecut guitars. Gibson tried and failed to have the case reheard by all sixteen active Sixth Circuit judges (denied in December 2005)[6] and then by the United States Supreme Court (denied June 2006),[7] which was their last chance to have their original injunction upheld. While no changes to the design of the Singlecut occurred as a result of the lawsuit (given that Gibson lost), some Singlecut owners and sellers have adopted the term 'pre-lawsuit' to differentiate their Singlecut from others.[8][9][10] —Ivan |
Joined: Apr 03, 2010 Posts: 3201 Jacksonville, AL
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Posted on Dec 13 2012 09:45 AM
It is interesting that he brought up Rickenbacker. It is true that you rarely see copies of them. SX/Rhondo Music had some really good Rickenbacker clones up until very recently. Today they are nowhere to be found on the sites. I got to play one back in the summer and was quite impressed. I did find some conterfeits on a Chinese import sight. http://www.c2coffer.com/buy/21210889/Rickenbacker-12-strings-Cherry-CS-electric-Guitar-nice.html http://www.c2coffer.com/buy/21210875/Rickenbacker-black-USA-electric-Guitar-hollow.html My company does a lot of business in China and my former boss is now heading an office over there. I have him keeping constant watch for a good Mosrite counterfeit for me. So far nothing has turned up. —THE KBK ... This is the last known signal. We offer Sanctuary. www.thekbk.com Last edited: Dec 13, 2012 09:46:21 |
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Joined: Jun 14, 2006 Posts: 913 New York City area |
Posted on Dec 13 2012 12:25 PM
I always wondered if Fender would ever have been dumb enough to sue Mosrite. The hot rumor over the years is that Semie Moseley flipped a stratocaster upside down; traced it and then "covered the tracks" by: It would be a hard sell to prove in court. At least Fender and Gibson have enough brains to sue a defendant who has the probable means to pay if they prevail. Semie Moseley never had to worry about that. He was in and out of money so many times, a plaintiff award would well have been a hollow victory -i.e. a waste of time and legal expense. Just ask the Ventures |
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Joined: Apr 03, 2010 Posts: 3201 Jacksonville, AL
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Posted on Dec 13 2012 12:47 PM
Interesting question, Johnny. Honestly, though, despite the story that has been passed down about flipping the stratocaster body and tracing it, it is so difficult for me to look at a Mosrite and see anything else but its own beast. If Semi had any intention of trying to emulate the Stratocaster and tap into its market then he greatly failed. What he succeeded in was creating a very original guitar with a sound all its own. —THE KBK ... This is the last known signal. We offer Sanctuary. www.thekbk.com |
Joined: Jun 14, 2012 Posts: 462 Ohio!
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Posted on Dec 13 2012 04:58 PM
Ivan is correct here. One stroll through a NAMM show halls and it is apparent that body shape is not much of a concern. There are dozens of companies selling guitars based on our favorite classic models by Fender, Gibson, Martin, etc. right under the noses of every major manufacturer. Lawyers for the big guys would have a field day if were an issue. Rickenbacker may actually be an exception but I don't know the details. I know a guy who was going to market a Ric 370 copy, he received a cease and desist letter from Rickenbacker after posting a pic of the prototype on his website. |
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Joined: Aug 23, 2006 Posts: 2123 The jungle
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Posted on Dec 14 2012 12:28 AM
Ivan, thanks for the info. You are thorough. Now I can realize my lifelong dream of making Steinberger copies without living in fear. |
Joined: Jul 31, 2012 Posts: 4054 Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted on Dec 14 2012 09:47 AM
It's amazing how some design patents were allowed by the owners to expire many, many years ago without renewal. Once that happened, as in the case of the Strat, Tele etc., and the forms were mass copied, the original owner of the design patent lost their ability to bring about litigation. —http://www.facebook.com/CrazyAcesMusic |
Joined: Apr 26, 2010 Posts: 882 central Indiana
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Posted on Dec 14 2012 07:09 PM
I had a different impression of that copy. I was in a guitar shop over in Ohio a few years ago and noticed a Ric copy hanging on the wall.It was done in fireglo my favorite Ricky finish. The sales guy came over and started boasting about how great the guitar was. He told me it felt and sounded exactly like a Rickenbacker at less than a 1/5th of the price. So I played it. Then handed it back to him. It felt nothing like my old 1964 360-12 and the sound was not even close. Maybe it feels like some other model of Rickenbacker, but it was nothing like my old '63 360-12. I do agree you seldom see a Ric copy. Never knew why given all the Strat, Les Paul, SG and ES-335 copies on the market. Later, |
Joined: Feb 28, 2006 Posts: 813 Boise, ID
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Posted on Dec 18 2012 10:58 PM
I remember an eBay auction from a few years ago, by a seller who obviously was a fan and very knowledgeable about the Surfcasters. He was selling a couple of the later, cheaper models and stated right in the auction that they were horrible guitars! I can't recall the exact wording but stated that he was just being honest. —Shawn Martin |
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Joined: Feb 28, 2006 Posts: 813 Boise, ID
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Posted on Dec 18 2012 11:03 PM
Brian wrote:
I was always tempted to get one of the Tursers but never did, now they're discontinued and don't show up much. There seems to be a small cult following for them. A guy on YouTube had 3 or 4 of them he gigged with, but admitted that every one of them sounded different and had varying shoddy workmanship. —Shawn Martin |
Joined: Jul 24, 2012 Posts: 2762 Finknabad, Squinkistan 
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Posted on Jan 20 2013 04:13 PM
Pretty soon there will only be Fender-owned brands selling at Bain Capital-owned Guitar Center stores. Then I will go a capella. LHR wrote: — |
Joined: May 27, 2012 Posts: 105
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Posted on Jul 30 2014 03:37 PM
I just discovered this guitar. Had an idea for my next guitar build and looks like it's already been done. My beloved offset Jazzmaster body with a Mosrite or Chavrel -type 3x3 headstock. Though mine would have a top mounted trem. Good stuff. Last edited: Jul 30, 2014 15:45:01 |
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