That was fun. Loved the look on Hank's face at the end. Makes me wonder what Hank would sound like singing one of Cliff's songs. Is there one of those anywhere?

This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.

Ivan
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Matt22 wrote:

I saw the heading and thought the Shadows had finally hired Ivan to replace Hank...lol.

Two things come to mind in response to that: 1) talk about slumming it! and 2) how the mighty have fallen!

But to add to the original post, I'd seen that clip before a while ago. Cliff wasn't a bad guitarist and he DID own that guitar, after all.

Yeah, Cliff really ain't too bad. Obviously there are little clams all over the place, but to play on live TV like that, when you're NOT a guitarist, well, it would have to be kinda nerve-racking! But this actually brings to mind a pet theory that I - and I alone - have. Check out this photo:

The Shadows at Abbey Road, running through a song before recording it, while Norrie Paramor, their producer, listens (if they were recording, Norrie would be in the booth, behind the glass). Probably from early 1961. You can tell everybody is focused and playing and listening. Notice anything interesting? Who's the guy on the far right, with an acoustic guitar? Why, it's Cliff! And notice that there's a big ole mic in front of his guitar?? Hmmm, what's going on here? Did Cliff record with the Shadows? Not to Bruce's memory. But here's where it gets interesting.

Bruce and the others always held that the first time they used overdubbing was on Foot Tapper, which came out in early '63. But if you listen really closely, I mean REALLY closely, you can hear a third guitar on several Shadows recordings from 1961, in all cases that being a second rhythm guitar part rather than another lead. Some of those recordings, off the top of my head: FBI (two electric rhythm guitar parts), Sleepwalk (both electric and acoustic rhythm guitars), Shotgun (two electric rhythm guitar parts), Big Boy (two electric rhythm guitar parts), and....hmm, I think there were a couple more but I can't remember them right now. I talked to Bruce about that when I first met him in '01, and he vehemently denied it, but said he would listen closely. The next time I saw him in '03, I asked him about it, thinking there was no way he would have remembered it, but he did! He did listen and, sure enough, he heard the parts! He agreed with me they were there, but he had no explanation for how they got there. He was completely puzzled by it. Remembering the above photo, I suggested that maybe Cliff played the third guitar part, and Bruce said no way. I told him about the photo, and he had never seen it, nor could he explain it. So, we just left it at that.

Some time later, I suggested this theory on the ShadowMusic forum, and some people got kinda touchy and didn't seem very comfortable. Many said that there was no way Cliff could play well enough to do those parts, but if you listen, in all of them the second rhythm guitar is very simple, just straight strumming, and he was clearly capable of more than that, as the above video shows. A noted Shadows expert ultimately wrote a LONG post to show that there is a difference between overdubbing (where you need at least a three-track machine, and you record along with the band on a separate track), and 'superimposition', where you record directly on top of the existing 1- or 2-track master. We know that they were technically capable of superimposing, and this guy was sure that Bruce added a second rhythm guitar that way. That seems very unlikely to me, and I'm still absolutely convinced that Cliff DOES play the second rhythm guitar on a handful of early Shadows tracks, though I don't think I've successfully convinced anybody yet. (Somebody that knows Cliff was going to ask him about it, but I don't think anything ever came of that.)

Anyway, maybe a few of you will find all that interesting....

Ivan
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Last edited: Nov 12, 2012 22:41:43

Bearing in mind Britain's post war higher band tax rate.
And Shadows royalties probably not cut evenly (question mark).
Then perhaps the rhythm guitarist is choosing to forget any additional recording artists that may have performed on their records.

http://www.tvsspecialtyproducts.com/page9.htm

more info on that photo.

http://www.reverbnation.com/thegreasemonkeyz

IvanP wrote:

What in the hell did I just watch?

Site dude - S3 Agent #202
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"It starts... when it begins" -- Ralf Kilauea

That's an interesting theory!

I'm sure the Shadows fanatics were all a-buzz about that photo.

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Pip pip old chap, and all that stuff.

BillyBlastOff wrote:

Dig Cliff's glasses! Speakin' of Cliff, we, (Men Of Mystery), just finished up in the studio with all the lead guitar, rhythmn guitar, bass, and drum tracks. Comin' out with a double cd with 16 Shadow Instrumentals, and 16 Cliff Richard and The Shadows vocal tunes. Need to finish up main vocals and back-up vocal tracks for the Cliff stuff. Hopefully done before Spring.
Billy

I want one. Can I pre-order?

This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.

Thanks, Billy. Needless to add, PM enthusiastically sent. I hope none of you are gonna dress up like Carmen Miranda when you do these in shows?

This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.