Caddy
Joined: Apr 10, 2012
Posts: 27
NW Indiana
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Posted on Oct 16 2012 09:03 AM
I had been looking for some new pickups for my modded black Squier SE strat the past couple of days. I am really not much of a strat player, but have been gassing for a VM Jaguar and a VM Surf Strat since getting my VM Jazzmaster a couple weeks ago.
Last night while looking for pickups for the strat I came up with a better idea for it. I'm thinking of turning it into something similar to the Squier Surf Strat. All I would need would be the lipstick pickups. I would repaint the guitar. I'm thinking Fender Ice Blue Metallic (ReRanch). Love that color, and it would go great with the white pearaloid pickguard I put on the SE. (I do have another strat that I play more often than the SE.) This should cure my gas for the Surf Strat. That strat could also somewhat be a replacement for my first electric guitar, a white 1959 custom double short horn (three pickup) Danelectro that I got in 1960. At least it would have the lipstick pickup look.
The SE already has Fender pots, switch, cap, locking tuners, Graph Tech nut and full size brass block trem assembly with rolled steel saddles (GFS). Don't know how soon I can get the painting done, as I have no good place to paint now that the weather is getting colder. But this is now my plan for the SE.
I am anxious to get started with it, at least the pickup swap for now. Just trying to decide if I should get a set of lipstick pickups I found on eBay that are vintage wound (all alinco V 4.5K) or the set from GFS that are alnico II and are wound somewhat more modern and have the reverse polarity middle pickup. Looking for input on that decision.
— If only my playing skills were somewhat equal to my 50 plus years of experience playing guitar! 
Last edited: Oct 17, 2012 14:19:27
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Noel
Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 8528
Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.
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Posted on Oct 16 2012 09:15 AM
Lots of folks here swear by Fender's '57-'62 set.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/fender-stratocaster-original-57-62-pickup-set
I'll probably do it one day myself, if I don't just buy a Strat that comes with them.
But there are lots of choices, as you already know. Here's a good read on the subject
http://surfguitar101.com/forums/topic/7297/
— This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.
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N0_Camping4U
Joined: May 03, 2012
Posts: 339
Galveston, Texas
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Posted on Oct 16 2012 09:42 AM
How hard is it to paint a strat and make it come out looking close to Fender quality? My buddy tried to paint his, but the guitar lacked the shine and polish, so it's scared me away....
what all would you need?
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psychonaut
Joined: Dec 08, 2007
Posts: 1304
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Posted on Oct 16 2012 09:54 AM
N0_Camping4U wrote:
How hard is it to paint a strat and make it come out looking close to Fender quality? My buddy tried to paint his, but the guitar lacked the shine and polish, so it's scared me away....
what all would you need?
Not hard if you carefully follow the "rules"
Everything you need including a "how to" is here:
http://www.reranch.com/
— https://www.facebook.com/coffindagger
http://coffindaggers.com/
http://thecoffindaggers.bandcamp.com
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Caddy
Joined: Apr 10, 2012
Posts: 27
NW Indiana
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Posted on Oct 16 2012 10:11 AM
Noel, thanks, but I'm looking to remove the regular strat pickups and replace them with lipstick tube pickups. I really don't care for a typical strat sound, except in position 4 (neck - mid). My two regular strats are my least played guitars. This one would be different and more 'surfy'. I would still have one normal strat, that one is my favorite of the two anyway.
If I did want typical strat pickups I would go with the Fender '57-'62 ones. I put a set of Fender Original Vintage pickups in my tele and they are great for that vintage tone. So, would trust that the strat ones would be similar in giving vintage tone in the strat. But, I am going to put lipstick pickups in this strat, much like the Squier VM surf strat.
I'm just trying to decide between the two lipstick tube pickup options.
— If only my playing skills were somewhat equal to my 50 plus years of experience playing guitar!
Last edited: Oct 16, 2012 10:13:45
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seafoam_johnny
Joined: Jul 27, 2007
Posts: 1099
4 faces. (Where the buffalo roam)
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Posted on Oct 16 2012 10:26 AM
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Noel
Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 8528
Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.
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Posted on Oct 16 2012 10:31 AM
SG101 members; going off-topic since the beginning.  I searched for past discussions and found these.
http://surfguitar101.com/forums/topic/11586/
http://surfguitar101.com/forums/topic/16181/
http://surfguitar101.com/forums/topic/17147/
Lipsticks get discussed in this one too.
http://surfguitar101.com/forums/topic/17301/
— This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.
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Caddy
Joined: Apr 10, 2012
Posts: 27
NW Indiana
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Posted on Oct 16 2012 10:51 AM
SeaFoam, I am wanting to get away from normal strat pickups, and the reason I was looking for replacements in the first place was that I really don't like staggered poles at all. The SD 'Surf' ones are staggered. They are also a little too pricey for a guitar that would probably get relatively little play time.
— If only my playing skills were somewhat equal to my 50 plus years of experience playing guitar!
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Stormtiger
Joined: Dec 12, 2006
Posts: 2687
Ventura, CA
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Posted on Oct 16 2012 12:16 PM
Why do some people think lipstick tube pickups are surfy? You cannot get more "surfy" than a standard Strat. Where did this notion come from? Is it just for looks?
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Jetpack
Joined: May 28, 2008
Posts: 333
Los Angeles
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Posted on Oct 16 2012 02:40 PM
Stormtiger, I think it is because they called that one lipstick Strat a year or two ago the Surf Strat. So they labelled it for one specific thing and the Market says, "okay- Fender made it "official". It reminds me of a show I played in the late 90's where a woman asked me on break what a surf guitar is and how it works. I told her there is just music and there are just instruments. She said she thought that rapid Dick Dale picking was an effect the guitar made. I told her that stringed instruments have been played like that for centuries and it is just picking like you've seen on a mandolin a hundred times. She was amazed that there was no magic beyond that. But, nowadays we have specific colors and body shapes that we are told are for surf music. Hence the reoccurring question: "will this surf?" on these boards when someone wants to buy something besides a Jag or Jazz or Mosrite, etc. but doesn't want it just as a musical instrument.
(BTW: Some guitars I have used to recorded surf music: Epiphone Dot, Rickenbacker 360/12, Strat Plus (Lace Sensors! Very Not vintage sounding)
— www.jetpackband.com
https://www.facebook.com/JetpackTheBand
Last edited: Oct 16, 2012 14:45:41
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Stormtiger
Joined: Dec 12, 2006
Posts: 2687
Ventura, CA
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Posted on Oct 16 2012 02:52 PM
Jetpack, I still have to wonder why Fender used lipstick tube pickups on their "Surf Strat" re-writing history. It's a Danelectro thing. I know...it's all marketing. But everyone here should know that stock Stratocaster pickups are the ones that first made "the sound" and you just can't get any "surfier" (unless you have a Jaguar).
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Jetpack
Joined: May 28, 2008
Posts: 333
Los Angeles
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Posted on Oct 16 2012 02:56 PM
Because it was SURF GREEEEEN! The lp pickups have chromed covers and that makes it extra SURFY! See? Like a Jag has chrome, now this Strat does. You surf guys like those things right? Now buy it!
-Fender Salesman
— www.jetpackband.com
https://www.facebook.com/JetpackTheBand
Last edited: Oct 16, 2012 14:57:21
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Caddy
Joined: Apr 10, 2012
Posts: 27
NW Indiana
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Posted on Oct 16 2012 03:01 PM
For me it's because of looks, something different and the fact that Link Wray (I know he's wasn't really a surf guy, had that big reverb sound that was later picked up somewhat by the surf guys.) I also bought a Gibson Maestro Fuzz Tone the first week they came out (about 1961 or 62)to help get that Link Wray type sound.
When I first started playing in bands his were some of the first songs I learned, as they were on the radio all the time. I used the term Surf Strat only because of the VM Surf Strat, as an example of what I wanted to make. Guess that was a very big mistake somehow.
Want the lipstick pickups because I want a different sound on that strat and the fact that my first electric was that three pickup 1959 Dano that I bought from an older kid in 1960.
I had done a search, but could find nothing to help me decide between the two particular sets of lipstick pickups I am considering. Another mistake, I suppose?
— If only my playing skills were somewhat equal to my 50 plus years of experience playing guitar!
Last edited: Oct 16, 2012 15:07:08
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stevel
Joined: Oct 12, 2012
Posts: 219
Hampton Roads, Virginia
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Posted on Oct 16 2012 05:27 PM
Caddy, I'm not a surf specialist by any stretch, but I am a long time strat player.
While it sounds like you have your mind made up about where you want to take this guitar I wanted to offer a few suggestions:
If you're not happy with the sound of the pickups (on this or any guitar), and haven't already done so, ADJUST THE PICKUPS! 
This is one of the simplest and most often overlooked ways of improving or tweaking the tone of a guitar. I see so many people go through pup swap after pup swap looking for the right tone when it was on the original pups, 1/2 turn of the screw away (and several hundred dollars before).
Certainly, pup swaps can of course make a difference as well, but I remind anyone reading that just plopping them in may not get the "most" out of them - they need to be adjusted to the desired tone as well.
Generally speaking, as you lower the pickup (farther from the strings) it takes on a "woodier" and "stringier" sound. For my taste that's a "better" sound for me than the "hotter" output a lot of people want (or think they want) by adjusting the pups closer to the strings. As an example, I NEVER liked the sound of my middle pup until I put some Fender Custom Shop 54s in my strat. I moved it up and down until I dialed in a tone I liked - it's just barely above the pickguard on the bass side and angled so the treble side is much closer (about 1/4"). This gave me a "stringy" sound that keeps that "hollow" character of the single coils, but's still nice and "round" sounding (I use pure nickel strings too and I don't like overly bright sounding guitars). It also gave me nice string-to-string balance and interestingly, I've discovered you can "open up" chords by getting that angle just right - 1/4 turn of the screw can make a big difference.
You mentioned the neck+middle and a lot of people don't realize you can also dial in the amount of "quack" by adjusting the middle pickup's postion relative to the neck (or vice versa).
So I would encourage you, and anyone else reading, to turn those screws a little and see what kind of tonal differences you can bring out. Just be careful not to go so far down the pups fall of the bottom of the screw (then you have to take the pickguard off to get them back on usually) and if you wind them too close to the strings you get "strat-itis" (you can google it). But within those extremes, you can find either the "optimium" position for that pup, or the "best" position for your playing style. Maybe the pups you have in it will be able to pull off that surf sound (though I understand your reasoning for the lipstick tubes).
Best,
Steve
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blackheartsfan
Joined: Jun 13, 2009
Posts: 274
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Posted on Oct 16 2012 05:45 PM
N0_Camping4U wrote:
How hard is it to paint a strat and make it come out looking close to Fender quality? My buddy tried to paint his, but the guitar lacked the shine and polish, so it's scared me away....
what all would you need?
See my two threads at The Squier '51 Modders Site where I thoroughly describe what you will need to do and how to do it. With the NEW Krylon Indoor/Outdoor Multi-Purpose spray paint there is NO need to strip the old finish and the color choices are amazing. I hate Walmart but they have the best prices and largest selection when it comes to the Krylon mentioned above. If you're using a light color, Seafoam, Surf Green, or Light Blue you MUST use "White" primer to get the best effect. As for "shine" you will have to wet sand and compound the body after the color coat and once the last coat of "Clear" is applied, that will give you professional results. Read the threads below completely, if you have any questions just PM me and I'll guide you through the process.
Link: http://www.instituteofnoise.com/squier51/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=6420&SearchTerms=Completed,Coral,Isle,Mist,Strat
Link: http://www.instituteofnoise.com/squier51/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=6420&SearchTerms=Blue,Ocean,Breeze,Strat
Last edited: Oct 16, 2012 17:52:32
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Noel
Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 8528
Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.
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Posted on Oct 16 2012 05:45 PM
Steve's right. I completely forgot that I did that to my own Strat and it sounds a lot surfier since I lowered them. I also added an $8.00 Callaham tone pot that lets me play the neck and bridge pickups together, and even dial in how much blend I want. Not really a Jag or JM sound (or even Tele), but very surfy and I use that most often now when I play this guitar.
— This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.
Last edited: Oct 16, 2012 17:54:10
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Oct 16 2012 06:06 PM
Stormtiger wrote:
Jetpack, I still have to wonder why Fender used lipstick tube pickups on their "Surf Strat" re-writing history.
This, 100%
Also, one should never swap pickups on a Squier and not re-haul the ENTIRE wiring harness. New pots, new wire, new jack. If you just put in new pickups, you won't be getting all you can out of them. Wire, pots, and jacks are cheap. Don't skimp.
I think because the lipsticks are considered "twangy" that people think that means they are 'surf'. I dislike that...
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Caddy
Joined: Apr 10, 2012
Posts: 27
NW Indiana
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Posted on Oct 16 2012 06:23 PM
Appreciate the info, but I am not unhappy with the pickups I put in this strat. I just want a totally different sound and look from this strat than my other strat. I did replace pots, switch, cap, wires and jack in this guitar to all Fender parts and installed a Graph Tech nut, a new trem with rolled steel saddles and full size brass trem block and locking tuners when I replaced the pickups. The only things original are the neck and body.
After over 50 years of playing guitar and building instruments I do know about adjusting pickups. I've actually built a couple acoustic instruments from scratch, one a copy of a 1924 Gibson archtop F-5 mandolin from blueprints.
I was really just looking to see if anyone had any experience to share on the lipstick pickups I am considering.It seems that somehow I have begun something else altogether. Sorry.
— If only my playing skills were somewhat equal to my 50 plus years of experience playing guitar!
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Noel
Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 8528
Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.
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Posted on Oct 16 2012 06:27 PM
Don't worry about it. Some people here do like lipsticks and have experience with them. They must not have read this (yet). If you rename your topic it may bring them to it. Do you know how to rename a topic?
— This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.
Last edited: Oct 16, 2012 18:28:20
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Jetpack
Joined: May 28, 2008
Posts: 333
Los Angeles
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Posted on Oct 16 2012 06:28 PM
I had believed they were marketing it cosmetically. Some kid buying a Squier, which is still the main market I assume (besides the JM and Jag) doesn't know from lipstick pickups, but they know that color and chrome look cool and it says "surf" right in the title so it must be. But yeah, Fender suddenly putting lp pickups on a Strat outta left field for a special "surf" guitar reminded me of Gibson making the Hendrix Strat. You just read the title again and look at the picture, say "huuuuh?", and wonder why your brain is showing you such messed up images.
— www.jetpackband.com
https://www.facebook.com/JetpackTheBand
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