an experiment we did with a tape-deck and 2 microphones

David2000

Joined: Apr 02, 2012
Posts: 15
Tel Aviv,Israel
1 Map Pin

Posted on Aug 06 2012 02:06 PM

we wanted to record a rehearsal not on a computer or iphone and other stuff but on something analog.so we used an old tapedeck with 2 mic inputs(1 for left/1 for right).
i think the results are amazing,the sound is really warm and reach.
you can here it over here:
http://theorions.bandcamp.com/

does anyone mayebe got some tips for this type of recording?
how to place the mic and the amps in the room for better sound?

Last edited: Aug 06, 2012 14:07:02

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LoeD

Joined: Feb 29, 2012
Posts: 310
Germany
Samoa

Posted on Aug 06 2012 02:56 PM

i n c r e d i b l e !
very cool sounding record and very cool sounding songs!
LoeD!

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psychonaut

Joined: Dec 08, 2007
Posts: 1305
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Posted on Aug 06 2012 03:05 PM

Congratulations, you've just re-invented the wheel! Just kidding, couldn't resist. Sounds really good! You've gotten a great result.

If you place all the instrument like you would at a gig, and two mics about 6 feet away, six feet from the floor, You should get excellent results. Of course there are a million other proper ways to do it, but this way works well for me. Be careful not to put too much space between each mic or you'll create a "hole" in the stereo spectrum. Placing the mics in a X-Y configuration helps avoid this. What sort of mics are you using? Condensor mics work really well for this type of recording. Also, remember that since it's analog, you can saturate the tape some, run it a little into the red and capture some more depth and harmonics. The louder the signal to tape (before distortion), the less tape noise will be evident.

Really though the title of your post says it all: Experiment! moving a mic as little as half an inch can really change the sound greatly.

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http://coffindaggers.com/
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David2000

Joined: Apr 02, 2012
Posts: 15
Tel Aviv,Israel
1 Map Pin

Posted on Aug 06 2012 03:23 PM

this time we used just simple sure 58's. I'm trying to get proper condensers for next time. we also wanna try make some recordings on a 2 track tape recorder with 1/2" tape if i remember right.
now, since we play it all live and all the amp are in the same room i thought about make some separation between the guitar amps and the drums and bass amp, put one mic on each which means every "group" go to a different side, i just hope it wont make that "hole" in the stereo spectrum.

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psychonaut

Joined: Dec 08, 2007
Posts: 1305
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Posted on Aug 06 2012 04:15 PM

David2000 wrote:

this time we used just simple sure 58's. I'm trying to get proper condensers for next time. we also wanna try make some recordings on a 2 track tape recorder with 1/2" tape if i remember right.
now, since we play it all live and all the amp are in the same room i thought about make some separation between the guitar amps and the drums and bass amp, put one mic on each which means every "group" go to a different side, i just hope it wont make that "hole" in the stereo spectrum.

In this case if you put one of the groups in the center (drums and bass or lead guitar for example) and the others hard left and hard right, you won't get a hole in the center. You can hear that hole effect on a lot of early stereo records from the 60's, and although it's great for separation, it sounds unnatural.
The real beauty of this way of recording is that you are focusing on capturing a performance, a moment in time rather than creating a perfect yet sterile recording.
1/2" 2 track sounds huge! We recorded our first album live to 2track on 1/2" tape and I loved the results.

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http://coffindaggers.com/
http://thecoffindaggers.bandcamp.com

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Big_Ryan

Joined: May 01, 2011
Posts: 578
San Diego
1 News Pin

Posted on Aug 06 2012 05:33 PM

A friend and I used to make recordings on VHS tapes through the audio input on a VCR, we would hang an sm58 from a ceiling fan and that would be it, we had mixed results

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http://sixtycyclehum.podbean.com

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David2000

Joined: Apr 02, 2012
Posts: 15
Tel Aviv,Israel
1 Map Pin

Posted on Aug 07 2012 04:16 PM

the thing is i limit myself to use only 2 mics, i'm not sending groups throughout a mixer so i have no real options for panning groups of instruments.
what do you think about putting each mic in a different room?
one room for drums and bass and one room for guitar?

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psychonaut

Joined: Dec 08, 2007
Posts: 1305
2 Download Pins

Posted on Aug 07 2012 04:53 PM

David2000 wrote:

the thing is i limit myself to use only 2 mics, i'm not sending groups throughout a mixer so i have no real options for panning groups of instruments.
what do you think about putting each mic in a different room?
one room for drums and bass and one room for guitar?

You'd certainly get cleaner tracks but simple baffaling will provide enough separation I think. Also if you get a bit of bleed in each mic from the other group it'll sound a bit more natural as this will create a center field of sound, thus eliminating any potential hole in the sound.

—

https://www.facebook.com/coffindagger
http://coffindaggers.com/
http://thecoffindaggers.bandcamp.com

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revmike

Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 3856
North Atlantic
Canada

Posted on Aug 08 2012 09:03 AM

I really like the sound of your recordings as is. Just experiment with amp placement/volume, as well as mic placement (as previously mentioned) until you hear what you like. You could try baffling to get a bit more separation, but I wouldn't bother. Great stuff! There's not enough of this type of recording IMHO.

Rev

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Canadian Surf

http://www.urbansurfkings.com/

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krupanut

Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 492
Austin Texas
2 News Pins

Posted on Aug 10 2012 11:49 AM

Nice stuff!

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The Thunderchiefs

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David2000

Joined: Apr 02, 2012
Posts: 15
Tel Aviv,Israel
1 Map Pin

Posted on Aug 11 2012 06:20 AM

i think i'll go for this stereo "effect" next time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbOpqIYIXTg

i really like this extreme separation

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psychonaut

Joined: Dec 08, 2007
Posts: 1305
2 Download Pins

Posted on Aug 11 2012 07:26 AM

David2000 wrote:

i think i'll go for this stereo "effect" next time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbOpqIYIXTg

i really like this extreme separation

That song has the bass guitar in the center of the mix. How will you accomplish that?

—

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http://coffindaggers.com/
http://thecoffindaggers.bandcamp.com

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David2000

Joined: Apr 02, 2012
Posts: 15
Tel Aviv,Israel
1 Map Pin

Posted on Aug 11 2012 07:33 AM

maybe i'll try to put the bass amp closer to the guitar section' so the guitar mic will get some bass in it. probably it will fill the gap but leave some room anyway.

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eddiekatcher

Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2778
Atlanta, GA
1 News Pin

Posted on Aug 11 2012 08:45 AM

Eddie give it all thumbs up.........(and he is all thumbs too)

ed

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Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?

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psychonaut

Joined: Dec 08, 2007
Posts: 1305
2 Download Pins

Posted on Aug 11 2012 09:09 AM

A small inexpensive mixer of some sort would help a lot. That way you could assign things Left, Right, or Center, or any point in between. By the way, the reason early sixties stereo records have such extreme separation is because pan pots didn't exist until about 1967, so they were only able to choose L,R, or center.

—

https://www.facebook.com/coffindagger
http://coffindaggers.com/
http://thecoffindaggers.bandcamp.com

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David2000 Joined: Apr 02, 2012 Posts: 15 Tel Aviv,Israel	Posted on Aug 06 2012 02:06 PM we wanted to record a rehearsal not on a computer or iphone and other stuff but on something analog.so we used an old tapedeck with 2 mic inputs(1 for left/1 for right). i think the results are amazing,the sound is really warm and reach. you can here it over here: http://theorions.bandcamp.com/ does anyone mayebe got some tips for this type of recording? how to place the mic and the amps in the room for better sound? Last edited: Aug 06, 2012 14:07:02 Top
LoeD Joined: Feb 29, 2012 Posts: 310 Germany	Posted on Aug 06 2012 02:56 PM i n c r e d i b l e ! very cool sounding record and very cool sounding songs! LoeD! — here comes the WEST SAMOA SURFER LEAGUE Top
psychonaut Joined: Dec 08, 2007 Posts: 1305	Posted on Aug 06 2012 03:05 PM Congratulations, you've just re-invented the wheel! Just kidding, couldn't resist. Sounds really good! You've gotten a great result. If you place all the instrument like you would at a gig, and two mics about 6 feet away, six feet from the floor, You should get excellent results. Of course there are a million other proper ways to do it, but this way works well for me. Be careful not to put too much space between each mic or you'll create a "hole" in the stereo spectrum. Placing the mics in a X-Y configuration helps avoid this. What sort of mics are you using? Condensor mics work really well for this type of recording. Also, remember that since it's analog, you can saturate the tape some, run it a little into the red and capture some more depth and harmonics. The louder the signal to tape (before distortion), the less tape noise will be evident. Really though the title of your post says it all: Experiment! moving a mic as little as half an inch can really change the sound greatly. — https://www.facebook.com/coffindagger http://coffindaggers.com/ http://thecoffindaggers.bandcamp.com Top
David2000 Joined: Apr 02, 2012 Posts: 15 Tel Aviv,Israel	Posted on Aug 06 2012 03:23 PM this time we used just simple sure 58's. I'm trying to get proper condensers for next time. we also wanna try make some recordings on a 2 track tape recorder with 1/2" tape if i remember right. now, since we play it all live and all the amp are in the same room i thought about make some separation between the guitar amps and the drums and bass amp, put one mic on each which means every "group" go to a different side, i just hope it wont make that "hole" in the stereo spectrum. Top
psychonaut Joined: Dec 08, 2007 Posts: 1305	Posted on Aug 06 2012 04:15 PM David2000 wrote: this time we used just simple sure 58's. I'm trying to get proper condensers for next time. we also wanna try make some recordings on a 2 track tape recorder with 1/2" tape if i remember right. now, since we play it all live and all the amp are in the same room i thought about make some separation between the guitar amps and the drums and bass amp, put one mic on each which means every "group" go to a different side, i just hope it wont make that "hole" in the stereo spectrum. In this case if you put one of the groups in the center (drums and bass or lead guitar for example) and the others hard left and hard right, you won't get a hole in the center. You can hear that hole effect on a lot of early stereo records from the 60's, and although it's great for separation, it sounds unnatural. The real beauty of this way of recording is that you are focusing on capturing a performance, a moment in time rather than creating a perfect yet sterile recording. 1/2" 2 track sounds huge! We recorded our first album live to 2track on 1/2" tape and I loved the results. — https://www.facebook.com/coffindagger http://coffindaggers.com/ http://thecoffindaggers.bandcamp.com Top
Big_Ryan Joined: May 01, 2011 Posts: 578 San Diego	Posted on Aug 06 2012 05:33 PM A friend and I used to make recordings on VHS tapes through the audio input on a VCR, we would hang an sm58 from a ceiling fan and that would be it, we had mixed results — http://dinosaurghost.bandcamp.com/ http://sixtycyclehum.podbean.com Top
David2000 Joined: Apr 02, 2012 Posts: 15 Tel Aviv,Israel	Posted on Aug 07 2012 04:16 PM the thing is i limit myself to use only 2 mics, i'm not sending groups throughout a mixer so i have no real options for panning groups of instruments. what do you think about putting each mic in a different room? one room for drums and bass and one room for guitar? Top
psychonaut Joined: Dec 08, 2007 Posts: 1305	Posted on Aug 07 2012 04:53 PM David2000 wrote: the thing is i limit myself to use only 2 mics, i'm not sending groups throughout a mixer so i have no real options for panning groups of instruments. what do you think about putting each mic in a different room? one room for drums and bass and one room for guitar? You'd certainly get cleaner tracks but simple baffaling will provide enough separation I think. Also if you get a bit of bleed in each mic from the other group it'll sound a bit more natural as this will create a center field of sound, thus eliminating any potential hole in the sound. — https://www.facebook.com/coffindagger http://coffindaggers.com/ http://thecoffindaggers.bandcamp.com Top
revmike Joined: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 3856 North Atlantic	Posted on Aug 08 2012 09:03 AM I really like the sound of your recordings as is. Just experiment with amp placement/volume, as well as mic placement (as previously mentioned) until you hear what you like. You could try baffling to get a bit more separation, but I wouldn't bother. Great stuff! There's not enough of this type of recording IMHO. Rev — Canadian Surf http://www.urbansurfkings.com/ Top
krupanut Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 492 Austin Texas	Posted on Aug 10 2012 11:49 AM Nice stuff! — The Thunderchiefs Top
David2000 Joined: Apr 02, 2012 Posts: 15 Tel Aviv,Israel	Posted on Aug 11 2012 06:20 AM i think i'll go for this stereo "effect" next time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbOpqIYIXTg i really like this extreme separation Top
psychonaut Joined: Dec 08, 2007 Posts: 1305	Posted on Aug 11 2012 07:26 AM David2000 wrote: i think i'll go for this stereo "effect" next time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbOpqIYIXTg i really like this extreme separation That song has the bass guitar in the center of the mix. How will you accomplish that? — https://www.facebook.com/coffindagger http://coffindaggers.com/ http://thecoffindaggers.bandcamp.com Top
David2000 Joined: Apr 02, 2012 Posts: 15 Tel Aviv,Israel	Posted on Aug 11 2012 07:33 AM maybe i'll try to put the bass amp closer to the guitar section' so the guitar mic will get some bass in it. probably it will fill the gap but leave some room anyway. Top
eddiekatcher Joined: Mar 14, 2006 Posts: 2778 Atlanta, GA	Posted on Aug 11 2012 08:45 AM Eddie give it all thumbs up.........(and he is all thumbs too) ed — Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps? Top
psychonaut Joined: Dec 08, 2007 Posts: 1305	Posted on Aug 11 2012 09:09 AM A small inexpensive mixer of some sort would help a lot. That way you could assign things Left, Right, or Center, or any point in between. By the way, the reason early sixties stereo records have such extreme separation is because pan pots didn't exist until about 1967, so they were only able to choose L,R, or center. — https://www.facebook.com/coffindagger http://coffindaggers.com/ http://thecoffindaggers.bandcamp.com Top

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an experiment we did with a tape-deck and 2 microphones