Sonichris
Joined: Mar 06, 2006
Posts: 1892
Wear gloves - I'm in the Rockies
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Posted on Feb 14 2007 12:30 AM
This is a continuation of another thread -
several early surf classics are easier to play in a lower key than the recorded key. I.E. Penetration, or Point panic.
So, the question is - is the tape sped up, or were guitars tuned differently? If it's sped up, was that common?
Also, what are some other songs that suffer this? I think....
Most of the Surfaris tunes ("Point Panic" is easier to play in E than in F, "F" is what sounds like on the recording, as well as several other of their songs)
some of the Original Surfaris
Surf Beat by Dick Dale (the original from "Surfer's Choice" it sounds about a half step off)
Any others?
Chris
— "You can't tell where you're going if you don't know where you've been"
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CaptainSpringfield
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 4387
Under the Sun
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Posted on Feb 14 2007 01:08 AM
"El Gato" by the Chandelles, plus a few Atlantics songs. And even though Randy Holden tuned down a full step, "Everybody Up" seems to fit the bill, too.
That could just be my crappy ears, though.
-Warren
— That was excessively violent and completely unnecessary. I loved it.
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Brian
Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Posts: 19289
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Posted on Feb 14 2007 08:25 AM
Yeah I second that for "Everybody Up", and a lot of the Atlantics tunes. I seem to recall having trouble playing along to Ali Baba too.
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butchdelux
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 250
Port Fierce, Florida
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Posted on Feb 14 2007 09:01 AM
I'm pretty sure there's some temp adustment on "Shake and Stomp" as well...either that or my Boss pedal tuner needs to go into the shop.
— The Disasternauts
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Klas
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 2293
Stockholm, Sweden
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Posted on Feb 14 2007 11:02 AM
I think I read somewhere that "Penetration" was sped up because the Pyramids were too sloppy sounding on the recording.
— T H E ✠ S U R F I T E S
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dp
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 3546
mojave desert, california
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Posted on Feb 14 2007 11:06 AM
I think Dick Dale's "Surf Beat" (Surfer's Choice LP) had an altered tape speed...something like a half-step sharp...
Dick's Dad did a lot of the recordings live on reel-to-reel...often those things could be miscalibrated...whether accidenatlly or on purpose.
-dp
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WaimeaBay
Joined: Jul 05, 2006
Posts: 969
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Posted on Feb 14 2007 11:15 AM
i have heard, but have no proof, that the ventures would sometimes tune down to Eb and when it was sped up it was in normal key. Some of the ventures recordings are still in Eb flat, which makes me believe this may be true.
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eddiekatcher
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2775
Atlanta, GA
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Posted on Feb 14 2007 11:45 AM
I'm not sure except that tuners were really rare in the 60's. I have a Conn Strobo Tuner that dates to the early 60's but never thought to check our band's tuning with it. Duh.... We just tuned with the Farfisa organ and who knew if it was in A-440 pitch? Later we tuned to my Hammond organ but they were notoriously always flat. I still think the Ventures played tricks on those of us trying to emulate them by changing their tuning for every track......ed
— Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?
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Stormtiger
Joined: Dec 12, 2006
Posts: 2683
Ventura, CA
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Posted on Feb 14 2007 12:03 PM
How about PJ & the Galaxies TALLY HO. Sounds like Paul had heard Les.
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Anonymous
Joined: Nov 10, 2000
Posts: -180
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Posted on Feb 14 2007 04:25 PM
 by all means were they sped up!! les paul and jeff beck weren't the only pickers doing that trip!! if you have ever worked with reel to reel machines, then you know how easy it is to play with the playback and recording speeds. its an old DJ trick too--has used it myself on radio and in the studio!! also remember that all turntables were not accurate speedwise. i thought turntables with a potted speed control were a gift from the hi fi gods!!! you could tune your turntable to your guitar! those old boys didn"t have all this modern digital equipment to record with----they used their brains and the equipment at hand to do all their "tricks." peace
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Anonymous
Joined: Nov 10, 2000
Posts: -180
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Posted on Feb 14 2007 04:28 PM
 we didn"t have electronic tuners back then---we had devices called pitchpipes. you blew in em to tune the guitar. the notes were on the thing ' easy to use but kinda dorky. peace
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reventlos
Joined: May 23, 2006
Posts: 209
Costa Mesa
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Posted on Feb 14 2007 04:31 PM
There's a long interview in the upcoming "Art of Surf Drumming" DVD (yeah, I know, where is it already---we're on the home stretch) with the late Jim Pash of the Surfaris that confirms and debunks many of the stories about "Wipeout". The song was indeed recorded in B and VSO'd up to C, because someone thought a slightly higher pitch would sound better through car radio speakers.
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bigtikidude
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 25568
Anaheim(So.Cal.)U.S.A.
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Posted on Feb 14 2007 06:42 PM
Klas
I think I read somewhere that "Penetration" was sped up because the Pyramids were too sloppy sounding on the recording.
Klas,
thats what I heard too,
Rob(bass player from the Dynotones) was in a band called Monster Zero
with 2 of the sons of Steve Lenoard( bass player for the Pyramids), and Thats what he told Rob, was that the song was loose and kinda sloppy, so they sped it up, to get it to feel tighter.
Jeff(bigtikidude)
— Jeff(bigtikidude)
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Tuck
Joined: Sep 02, 2006
Posts: 3166
Denver, CO
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Posted on Feb 14 2007 07:45 PM
I don't know anything about this in surf music, but my understanding is that some of the Yardbirds' early material was speeded up to get it fit onto records of a certain length. My recollection is that this affected the sound of the US releases of material from their early live recording, e.g., I'm a Man.
I understand that some radio stations do this today - now with compensating pitch adjustment, or maybe they just do time slicing. I think - I hope - this only affects syndicated talk shows, the goal being to fit more commercials in. Not that I'm real worried about missing a few bytes of ... well, OK, maybe we'd better leave the politics out. Anyway, you may only be heaing a sample of what your favorite wacko thinks.  A sample of all of it.
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Sonichris
Joined: Mar 06, 2006
Posts: 1892
Wear gloves - I'm in the Rockies
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Posted on Feb 14 2007 07:51 PM
So, does all this manipulation ruin any of these songs for anybody? Knowing that the song "penetration" never sounded like that live is a little dis-heartening.
many of us spend a large amount of time trying to capture a sound that never was -
Chris
— "You can't tell where you're going if you don't know where you've been"
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eddiekatcher
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2775
Atlanta, GA
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Posted on Feb 14 2007 08:26 PM
I was just reading back through these posts and remembered my first "tuner" was a 45 rpm record that came with my first guitar. Of course it was a Silvertone acoustic archtop that the neck came unglued on in less than a month. One side was some dude announcing that "this is the first string," twang, twang, twang, etc and next an so on. The other side was several simple songs to learn by playing along with. I believe I still have that record at my mom's house! I am still shaking my head in disbelief that it took me almost ten years to figure out that I could tune my guitar with a Strobo Tuner! Damn Dumb Dude......ed
— Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?
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Klas
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 2293
Stockholm, Sweden
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Posted on Feb 15 2007 06:34 AM
Sonichris
So, does all this manipulation ruin any of these songs for anybody? Knowing that the song "penetration" never sounded like that live is a little dis-heartening.
As long as the recording isn't sped up ridiculously, it's just a tempo change to me. A finished record never sounded anything like what the band sounded like in the studio while recording it. All due to that it was very much the recording/mastering equipment and techniques of the time that created the magic 60s sound heard on the records.
eddiekatcher
One side was some dude announcing that "this is the first string," twang, twang, twang, etc and next an so on.
The "Play Guitar With The Ventures" albums had that feature too.
— T H E ✠ S U R F I T E S
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mom_surfing
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 5303
the outer banks of north carolina
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Posted on Feb 15 2007 08:25 AM
the original 'walk don't run' and the rivieras 'california sun' have always seemed a little off to me.
— www.surfintheeye.com
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90
Joined: May 16, 2006
Posts: 91
Florianopolis SC Brazil
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Posted on Feb 15 2007 09:12 PM
bigtikidude
Klas
I think I read somewhere that "Penetration" was sped up because the Pyramids were too sloppy sounding on the recording.
Klas,
thats what I heard too,
Rob(bass player from the Dynotones) was in a band called Monster Zero
with 2 of the sons of Steve Lenoard( bass player for the Pyramids), and Thats what he told Rob, was that the song was loose and kinda sloppy, so they sped it up, to get it to feel tighter.
Jeff(bigtikidude)
First time I ever tried to play Penetration was on a 21 fret guitar. I was playing in it in G, so when the melody is played way up I was like "What?". Then it hit me. They used strats, which didn´t have 22 frets those days. Speeded up allright.
How about the centurions? Were those guys slowed down or did they tune down to D? Doom Surf anyone?
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http://gianninisupersonic.blogspot.com
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