trem picking strings out of tune!

el_camello

Joined: Jul 04, 2010
Posts: 369
Ottawa
Canada

Posted on Nov 01 2011 09:28 PM

thanks for all the answers, you guys are a very helpful bunch.

i have a jaguar classic player.

my first instinct was that my string was bending due to it being hit hard. my nut is cut for 13 instead of 12. so that could be an issue for the open strings.

just did as honest of an assessment on my technique as i can and i am digging in quite a bit with my fretting hand :S

—

-Pierre
The Obsidians! (Ottawa surf)
The Obsidians debut EP

Last edited: Nov 01, 2011 21:28:31

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Noel

Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 8528
Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.
United States

Posted on Nov 02 2011 05:53 AM

To those who own or have used them, is it possible the floating trem assembly of the Jag isn't designed for or up to Dick Dale-style playing?

—

This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.

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Noel

Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 8528
Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.
United States

Posted on Nov 02 2011 06:20 AM

One more observation. After watching Dick Dale play Rumble at his show recently, I had to kick my version WAAAY up. What with really heavy strumming and shaking the guitar for all it's worth with the whammy bar, it was all sorts of out of tune when I was done, and I play a Strat. There must be something to using 16s-58s. But it sure was fun!

—

This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.

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P2gee

Joined: Jul 05, 2006
Posts: 264
Waco Texas

Posted on Nov 05 2011 10:22 AM

I think before I got real excited about doing wholesale adjustments to bridges and such to correct this problem, I would try a different amp or two to see if the problem follows the guitar. There are numerous amp problems that can cause flating of notes at specific freqencies.

—

2012-2013: FILTHY POLAROIDS

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JakeDobner

Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
5 News Pins

Posted on Nov 05 2011 11:18 AM

Noel wrote:

To those who own or have used them, is it possible the
floating trem assembly of the Jag isn't designed for or
up to Dick Dale-style playing?

Shouldn't be a problem, see Dave Wronski or Nels Cline. Well... there is a difference between Dick Dale playing, and then getting the same result as Dick, but just with some finesse. I cannot claim to be Dick's right hand, but I'm guessing he tries to destroy the string versus a Nels Cline going apeshit, but doing it musically. Dick gets a lot of pick on the string...

Noel, check this video out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp1AIh2DkI0&hd=1
I think this can help prove that a Jazzmaster can do anything a strat can and not have to be any more fragile with the guitar. Sorry for the ad in the beginning. If you aren't familiar with Nels Cline, try and make it to the end of the video. Although the point I am trying to illustrate is in the middle. Also, not his best solo, just the most aggressive. Check out Impossible Germany for the solo if you like what you hear.

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Fady

Joined: Mar 07, 2010
Posts: 2273
North Carolina
United States

Posted on Nov 05 2011 01:20 PM

Admittedly never got into Wilco but that was friggin' intense. Brilliant!

—

Fady

El Mirage @ ReverbNation

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Noel

Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 8528
Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.
United States

Posted on Nov 05 2011 03:11 PM

Jake,

That's a great reply. Thanks for the illutrated explaination. Dick says he used to use 38s to 60s back in the day, but 16's to 58s now. 38s? Ow! He certainly destroys picks. I have got to play a Jazzmaster or Jaguar to see what all the fuss is about. And their capabilities.

Noel

JakeDobner wrote:

Noel wrote:

To those who own or have used them, is it possible
the
floating trem assembly of the Jag isn't designed for
or
up to Dick Dale-style playing?

Shouldn't be a problem, see Dave Wronski or Nels Cline.
Well... there is a difference between Dick Dale
playing, and then getting the same result as Dick, but
just with some finesse. I cannot claim to be Dick's
right hand, but I'm guessing he tries to destroy the
string versus a Nels Cline going apeshit, but doing it
musically. Dick gets a lot of pick on the string...

Noel, check this video out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp1AIh2DkI0&hd=1
I think this can help prove that a Jazzmaster can do
anything a strat can and not have to be any more
fragile with the guitar. Sorry for the ad in the
beginning. If you aren't familiar with Nels Cline, try
and make it to the end of the video. Although the point
I am trying to illustrate is in the middle. Also, not
his best solo, just the most aggressive. Check out
Impossible Germany for the solo if you like what you
hear.

—

This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.

Top

Matt22

Joined: Feb 15, 2007
Posts: 2858
Fredericksburg, Virginia
United States

Posted on Nov 05 2011 04:00 PM

Nels tears it up! He's an excellent guitarist using an excellent guitar!

Thanks for the links, Jake!

—

Matt "tha Kat" Lentz
Skippy and the Skipjacks: 2018-2020
Skippyandtheskipjacks.net
https://www.facebook.com/skippyandtheskipjacks
Otto and the Ottomans: 2014-2015
The Coconauts surf band: 2009-2014
www.theamazingcoconauts.com
Group Captain and the Mandrakes 2013
http://www.gcmband.com/
The Surfside IV: 2002-2005, 2008-2009
the Del-Vamps: 1992-1999, 2006-2007
http://www.dblcrown.com/delvamps.html

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el_camello

Joined: Jul 04, 2010
Posts: 369
Ottawa
Canada

Posted on Nov 06 2011 03:18 PM

Tuning Nightmares:
http://www.endino.com/archive/tuningnightmares.html

found this link and thought it was very interesting.

—

-Pierre
The Obsidians! (Ottawa surf)
The Obsidians debut EP

Last edited: Nov 06, 2011 15:18:47

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LHR

Joined: Aug 23, 2006
Posts: 2123
The jungle
Costa Rica

Posted on Nov 06 2011 04:29 PM

el_camello: the part where he states that with a capo on, the strings will return sharp after vigorous play, is exactly what I am talking about. Except substitute a bind in the nut slot for a capo. This is almost always why strings go sharp in my experience.

Another factor may be the tremolo. I got a brand new AVRI Jazzmaster that would do this for a few weeks. The tremolo is actually fairly crude and relies upon a strange sort of knife edge for balance, a kind of fulcrum. In actuality, after use, mine could rest in one of two possible states: one if I pulled up and one after I pulled down. The difference was about +/- 50 cents. After a few weeks of wearing down probably some small imperfection in the metal fulcrum edge, this went away. To make doubly sure things were cool in there, I greased the surfaces inside with Teflon. All is well now. You could test easily to see if this is your problem, also. Just a thought.

—

SSIV

Last edited: Nov 06, 2011 16:32:27

Top

Ruhar

Joined: Jun 21, 2007
Posts: 3909
San Diego, CA
United States

Posted on Nov 07 2011 10:22 AM

JakeDobner wrote:

If you aren't familiar with Nels Cline, try
and make it to the end of the video. Although the point
I am trying to illustrate is in the middle. Also, not
his best solo, just the most aggressive. Check out
Impossible Germany for the solo if you like what you
hear.

Thanks Jake. Nels is one of my biggest guitar heroes and the sole reason I bought a Jazzmaster. I recently came across some cool footage of Mike Watt's Contemplating the Engine Room tour from '98. One of the greatest live shows I've ever seen. Nels is just mythical on that record!

—

Ryan
The Secret Samurai Website
The Secret Samurai on Facebook

Last edited: Nov 07, 2011 10:24:16

Top

el_camello Joined: Jul 04, 2010 Posts: 369 Ottawa	Posted on Nov 01 2011 09:28 PM thanks for all the answers, you guys are a very helpful bunch. i have a jaguar classic player. my first instinct was that my string was bending due to it being hit hard. my nut is cut for 13 instead of 12. so that could be an issue for the open strings. just did as honest of an assessment on my technique as i can and i am digging in quite a bit with my fretting hand :S — -Pierre The Obsidians! (Ottawa surf) The Obsidians debut EP Last edited: Nov 01, 2011 21:28:31 Top
Noel Joined: Mar 15, 2011 Posts: 8528 Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.	Posted on Nov 02 2011 05:53 AM To those who own or have used them, is it possible the floating trem assembly of the Jag isn't designed for or up to Dick Dale-style playing? — This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got. Top
Noel Joined: Mar 15, 2011 Posts: 8528 Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.	Posted on Nov 02 2011 06:20 AM One more observation. After watching Dick Dale play Rumble at his show recently, I had to kick my version WAAAY up. What with really heavy strumming and shaking the guitar for all it's worth with the whammy bar, it was all sorts of out of tune when I was done, and I play a Strat. There must be something to using 16s-58s. But it sure was fun! — This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got. Top
P2gee Joined: Jul 05, 2006 Posts: 264 Waco Texas	Posted on Nov 05 2011 10:22 AM I think before I got real excited about doing wholesale adjustments to bridges and such to correct this problem, I would try a different amp or two to see if the problem follows the guitar. There are numerous amp problems that can cause flating of notes at specific freqencies. — 2012-2013: FILTHY POLAROIDS Top
JakeDobner Joined: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 12159 Seattle	Posted on Nov 05 2011 11:18 AM Noel wrote: To those who own or have used them, is it possible the floating trem assembly of the Jag isn't designed for or up to Dick Dale-style playing? Shouldn't be a problem, see Dave Wronski or Nels Cline. Well... there is a difference between Dick Dale playing, and then getting the same result as Dick, but just with some finesse. I cannot claim to be Dick's right hand, but I'm guessing he tries to destroy the string versus a Nels Cline going apeshit, but doing it musically. Dick gets a lot of pick on the string... Noel, check this video out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp1AIh2DkI0&hd=1 I think this can help prove that a Jazzmaster can do anything a strat can and not have to be any more fragile with the guitar. Sorry for the ad in the beginning. If you aren't familiar with Nels Cline, try and make it to the end of the video. Although the point I am trying to illustrate is in the middle. Also, not his best solo, just the most aggressive. Check out Impossible Germany for the solo if you like what you hear. Top
Fady Joined: Mar 07, 2010 Posts: 2273 North Carolina	Posted on Nov 05 2011 01:20 PM Admittedly never got into Wilco but that was friggin' intense. Brilliant! — Fady El Mirage @ ReverbNation Top
Noel Joined: Mar 15, 2011 Posts: 8528 Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.	Posted on Nov 05 2011 03:11 PM Jake, That's a great reply. Thanks for the illutrated explaination. Dick says he used to use 38s to 60s back in the day, but 16's to 58s now. 38s? Ow! He certainly destroys picks. I have got to play a Jazzmaster or Jaguar to see what all the fuss is about. And their capabilities. Noel JakeDobner wrote: Noel wrote: To those who own or have used them, is it possible the floating trem assembly of the Jag isn't designed for or up to Dick Dale-style playing? Shouldn't be a problem, see Dave Wronski or Nels Cline. Well... there is a difference between Dick Dale playing, and then getting the same result as Dick, but just with some finesse. I cannot claim to be Dick's right hand, but I'm guessing he tries to destroy the string versus a Nels Cline going apeshit, but doing it musically. Dick gets a lot of pick on the string... Noel, check this video out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp1AIh2DkI0&hd=1 I think this can help prove that a Jazzmaster can do anything a strat can and not have to be any more fragile with the guitar. Sorry for the ad in the beginning. If you aren't familiar with Nels Cline, try and make it to the end of the video. Although the point I am trying to illustrate is in the middle. Also, not his best solo, just the most aggressive. Check out Impossible Germany for the solo if you like what you hear. — This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got. Top
Matt22 Joined: Feb 15, 2007 Posts: 2858 Fredericksburg, Virginia	Posted on Nov 05 2011 04:00 PM Nels tears it up! He's an excellent guitarist using an excellent guitar! Thanks for the links, Jake! — Matt "tha Kat" Lentz Skippy and the Skipjacks: 2018-2020 Skippyandtheskipjacks.net https://www.facebook.com/skippyandtheskipjacks Otto and the Ottomans: 2014-2015 The Coconauts surf band: 2009-2014 www.theamazingcoconauts.com Group Captain and the Mandrakes 2013 http://www.gcmband.com/ The Surfside IV: 2002-2005, 2008-2009 the Del-Vamps: 1992-1999, 2006-2007 http://www.dblcrown.com/delvamps.html Top
el_camello Joined: Jul 04, 2010 Posts: 369 Ottawa	Posted on Nov 06 2011 03:18 PM Tuning Nightmares: http://www.endino.com/archive/tuningnightmares.html found this link and thought it was very interesting. — -Pierre The Obsidians! (Ottawa surf) The Obsidians debut EP Last edited: Nov 06, 2011 15:18:47 Top
LHR Joined: Aug 23, 2006 Posts: 2123 The jungle	Posted on Nov 06 2011 04:29 PM el_camello: the part where he states that with a capo on, the strings will return sharp after vigorous play, is exactly what I am talking about. Except substitute a bind in the nut slot for a capo. This is almost always why strings go sharp in my experience. Another factor may be the tremolo. I got a brand new AVRI Jazzmaster that would do this for a few weeks. The tremolo is actually fairly crude and relies upon a strange sort of knife edge for balance, a kind of fulcrum. In actuality, after use, mine could rest in one of two possible states: one if I pulled up and one after I pulled down. The difference was about +/- 50 cents. After a few weeks of wearing down probably some small imperfection in the metal fulcrum edge, this went away. To make doubly sure things were cool in there, I greased the surfaces inside with Teflon. All is well now. You could test easily to see if this is your problem, also. Just a thought. — SSIV Last edited: Nov 06, 2011 16:32:27 Top
Ruhar Joined: Jun 21, 2007 Posts: 3909 San Diego, CA	Posted on Nov 07 2011 10:22 AM JakeDobner wrote: If you aren't familiar with Nels Cline, try and make it to the end of the video. Although the point I am trying to illustrate is in the middle. Also, not his best solo, just the most aggressive. Check out Impossible Germany for the solo if you like what you hear. Thanks Jake. Nels is one of my biggest guitar heroes and the sole reason I bought a Jazzmaster. I recently came across some cool footage of Mike Watt's Contemplating the Engine Room tour from '98. One of the greatest live shows I've ever seen. Nels is just mythical on that record! — Ryan The Secret Samurai Website The Secret Samurai on Facebook Last edited: Nov 07, 2011 10:24:16 Top

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trem picking strings out of tune!